Tribunal hears Defence Forces now encourage personnel to report concerns

A total of 58 witnesses will give evidence in the first module, which started on Wednesday.

The Defence Forces have never had as many support services as they do now, the Defence Forces Tribunal has been told.

The head of the Defence Forces' internal staff support service, Personal Support Services (PSS), Commandant David Lyons, said there had never been “so many avenues”.

The change has, he said, been “enormous”.

Speaking on the second day of a public hearing module of the tribunal, he added: “We have an abundance of services”.

He was responding to a comment from one of the defence minister’s senior counsel, Sinead McGrath, that since 2021 there has been a “dramatic shift” in the way the Defence Forces handle complaints.

He also said the culture in the Defence Forces is now very much focused on moving away from concepts such as “service above self” or “misguided loyalty” to the Defence Forces and instead towards “not trying to hide things”.

He said soldiers are now constantly reminded that “if you see something, you say something”.

He also said a review is under way into the “organisational culture and how effective our (complaints) processes are”.

However, he admitted he did not know what percentage of complaints are dealt with by the PSS, or how many are actually resolved.

He said this could be because an approach to the PSS might just be “a discreet conversation over a cup of tea” and that might not be recorded.

Earlier, however, Aedan McGovern, one of the tribunal’s senior counsel, had put it to him that the PSS service is not actually confidential and that staff who work there “are part of the chain of command".

He replied: “I wouldn’t agree.” 

He explained that information could not always be considered completely confidential in certain circumstances, such as where there is a risk of harm to the person seeking help from the PSS or to other personnel, to children or vulnerable people, and where the Defence Forces are required to comply with the law.

Documents relating to the work of the PSS were shown to the tribunal at the request of Ms McGrath.

One thing stated in them was: “All PSS services are predicated on the core principle of confidentiality.

“There are limits to that confidentiality.

“The disclosure of confidential information may be necessary in certain circumstances.” 

The first module of public hearings, at The Infinity Building, Smithfield, Dublin, will investigate whether complaints of abuse were “actively deterred or whether there was a culture that discouraged the making of complaints of abuse”.

As the tribunal team’s investigations are still ongoing, hearings will operate in tandem and be held periodically in various modules.

A total of 58 witnesses will give evidence in the first module, which started on Wednesday. Six of those witnesses are people who say they suffered side effects from the anti-malarial drug Lariam (mefloquine).

On Wednesday, the opening day of the hearings, the tribunal heard an expert say he believed the Defence Forces’ Redress of Wrongs internal grievance process is only suitable for “small, low level” complaints, but not for more serious matters.

Captain Kjell Arne Bratli, a former Norwegian government adviser commissioned to review the Defence Forces’ complaints processes, said he would not trust any military process to handle allegations of criminality properly.

He also pointed out that the last time the Norwegian army used the court martial system — which the Irish Defence Forces still use — was during the Second World War.

Those attending the tribunal were also told its role was to deal with “urgent matters of public importance”, including “torture and rape”, that relate to a workplace like “no other”.