‘I don’t know what your problem is with this, Sean’

The following is an extract from an interview given by Justice Minister Michael McDowell on yesterday’s News at One programme on RTÉ.

Sean O’Rourke: Ever since you put out that written Dáil reply last week about the Centre for Public Inquiry and its executive director Frank Connolly, you’ve been taking some criticism. The Irish Times on Friday saying there was a smell off the affair, the Tribune yesterday saying what Michael McDowell did under the cloak of Dáil privilege undermines the independence of our justice system and steps dangerously close to the creation of a police state... What exactly was your justification?

Michael McDowell: Well, first of all, I want to say that I answered a question which was put to me by Deputy Finian McGrath and he asked me to comment on recent attempts, as he put it, to undermine the CPI, this is the body for which Mr Connolly was working as its chief executive, and I answered the question directly and I stand by every single word I said. It is the plain unvarnished truth, as far as I am concerned.

I won’t be browbeaten into silence by people who are peddling what I regard as a complete falsehood, and that is that, unless material is proven beyond all reasonable doubt by admissible evidence in a court of law, that it cannot be the subject matter of any comment by a Minister for Justice... My job is to defend the security of the State.

SO’R: Is that what you were doing last week by making these revelations about Frank Connolly?

MMcD: You will recall that I was being asked to deal with the issue as to what I had done with the Centre for Public Inquiry and to comment on what Deputy McGrath said were efforts to undermine that body.

SO’R: Well, what he was really talking about, I suspect, is the fact that the Irish Independent had been given, leaked I suppose, copies of the false passport applications, and presumably that would have been a matter of concern to you as Minister for Justice?

MMcD: No, first of all it is not a concern of mine that that matter appeared in the Irish Independent because I supplied it to the Irish Independent.

SO’R: You actually provided those documents to the Irish Independent?

MMcD: I provided that document to the Independent, yes.

SO’R: Well was that not a document that should have been treated as a confidential one, a citizen applying for a passport?

MMcD: No, because it was a false, bogus application form which was generated as part of a subversive activity.

SO’R: Why didn’t you say at the time that you were giving these documents to the Independent?

MMcD: What do you mean, ‘why didn’t I say’? The Irish Independent sought from me, and I gave to the Irish Independent, the document which was the subject matter of the false application for a passport. And I just want to make it very clear, under the Official Secrets Act, a Minister of State is perfectly free in appropriate circumstances and the public interest to make official information available to the media. And I just want to make it very, very clear, as well, that it was not a confidential document. It was a bogus, fraudulent document...

SO’R: But we’re talking here about something which presumably was the subject of a garda inquiry. That worked its way through the system, right up to the DPP, I’m surmising here and correct me if I’m wrong, and the DPP, in his wisdom, decided there really wasn’t sufficient grounds for a charge. And then you as minister, against that background, you see fit then to get at Frank Connolly using another way?

MMcD: Sorry, I’m not getting at anybody, I’m protecting...

SO’R: Well, he’s without e4 million in funding...

MMcD: Hold on a second, the decision by Mr Feeney of Atlantic Philanthropies to withdraw funding is a decision for Mr Feeney’s charity and not for me. But I want to make it very...

SO’R: Well, your office was saying last week that you told him the full unvarnished truth about Frank Connolly.

MMcD: That’s right and I insist on my right to do it and I don’t know what your problem is with this, Sean.

SO’R: Could I put to you a question raised by another analyst yesterday. Well in this case now, there’s uncertainty about, at least, whether anybody’s going to be charged with the murder of Rachel O’Reilly. You presumably have information which is akin to what you had on Frank Connolly. Do you want to tell us who murdered Rachel O’Reilly?

MMcD: Sorry, Sean, this is an absurd proposition that you are putting to me that nobody...

SO’R: But you could use the same logic.

MMcD: No, it’s not the same logic. My purpose as Minister for Justice is to defend the Irish State from subversion and I intend to do that fearlessly and I’m not going to be browbeaten by anybody ...

SO’R: You can fillet the file to blacken the name of the person who the DPP has decided not to charge. That’s really what you’re talking about here.

MMcD: It’s not a question of blackening anybody’s name, I stand by every word I said. It’s not blackening somebody to tell the truth as you see it.

SO’R: Well, Frank Connolly...

MMcD: Sorry, I heard Frank Connolly’s interview with you and I won’t comment on the credibility of that interview with you. But I say that I stand by every word I’ve spoken in public.

Compiled by Niall Murray.