‘There’s power in conversation’: Reasons for hope at a Cork city parklet

UCC lecturer in Islam meets with Cork City councillors to foster greater understanding

Pakistani ambassador Sardar Shuja Alam with Amanullah de Sondy.

Conversation topics over coffee can range from subject to subject when a University College Cork (UCC) religious studies scholar invites Cork City councillors for a chat.

Amanullah De Sondy, UCC's senior lecturer in contemporary Islam, offered to meet the politicians to discuss diversity and religious plurality in Ireland, after a Cork Cty councillor published a misleading social-media post about refugees fleeing the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Ken O'Flynn, Independent, was criticised for claiming a 2018 photograph of Afghan men being deported from Turkey was a "flight coming in from Afghanistan" after the US withdrawal this summer.

Scottish academic Mr De Sondy met the city's local politicians because he thinks it is too easy to exploit Muslims for political gain.

"I feel that Muslims are an easy target," Mr De Sondy said. "And rather than talk through a public medium like social media or an article, I thought, 'Why don't I be more proactive, as a Corkonian, and sit down and have a chat about this?'" As well as discussing different religious beliefs, the conversation focused on what it is to be Irish in 2021.

"That's a really important question, as it allows us all to question who we understand are minorities and who are the majorities and to think about how we are going to emerge post-pandemic as an equal and fair society," he said.

The conversation also encompassed how to represent a changing Irish society.

"That's another important one, because Ireland is changing, and modern political parties are going to need to respond to that," Mr De Sondy said. "This change is why we continue to have politicians who use minorities as scapegoats in order to gain more support."

Mr De Sondy said fellow Muslims in Cork City asked him why he was making the effort to meet the local politicians, as it was their belief that the politicians did not care about their community.

He said his decision was individual and that he wanted to challenge stereotypes across every community.

"There's power in conversation," Mr De Sondy said. "We need to talk to each other. There are too many stereotypes and prejudices we have on all sides.

"What are we doing, as individuals, to challenge these stereotypes, if we don't actually sit and challenge each other on our prejudices and stereotypes? I think it works both ways. You can't generalise all white people. You can't generalise in the way we Muslims don't want to be generalised; we Muslims should not generalise entire other communities," he said.

Mick Nugent and Amanullah de Sondy at the parklet on Douglas St.

To his surprise, Mr De Sondy had his own ideas about Pakistan challenged at a recent meeting with the country's ambassador to Ireland.

Having not visited Pakistan since 1999, despite his great affection for Pakistani culture, he said his meeting with Sardar Shuja Alam, the ambassador, was a breath of fresh air.

"So, in my mind, I would have a lot of stereotypes about how I would understand Pakistan, and Pakistanis, and I was completely corrected," Mr De Sondy said.

"The ideas and talks of home that are happening there are no different to things that are happening in Cork. So, again, it just shows that our projections are stronger than we like to think and that we like to box people into." 

Lorna Bogue and Amanullah de Sondy at the parklet on Douglas St.

Lorna Bogue met Mr De Sondy as part of the conversation series. The Rabharta Glas-Green Left councillor said proactive support for minority communities was her main takeaway from the conversation. In her view, ignoring stereotyping isn't sufficient, as this could be inferred as tacit support. "Being an elected representative, that's a privileged position and it's important that you're listening to people and you are using that position to help people," she said.

Sinn Féin councillor Mick Nugent said he found his conversation with Mr De Sondy insightful, having discussed religious tolerance and religion's place in society, and that more conversations like this can develop greater understanding.

"I think even the councillor who made the comments originally that sparked Aman's invitation would have found something in common with Aman," Mr Nugent said. "I think that's what you find when you have a dialogue. You might agree more than you disagree," he said.

For Mr De Sondy, heartened by the community spirit he experienced while enjoying a coffee at the Cork Flower Studio, the conversation series only further strengthened his optimism about Ireland's pluralistic future.

"Here were local politicians who were really considering modern Ireland and its people and its place in the world and that, for me, was a huge [..] commitment," he said.

"I felt that all of them were committed to this and to understanding the diversity in which Ireland thrives.

"It is a thinking society and this is what is nice to me about being in Ireland. Every time I raise a question or a critique, I see people take it on board: They will take part in discussion, they won’t shut down," he said.

"I'm very proud to be in Ireland," he said, "I think the future is really quite bright here."