Inside out: The Two Norries record a groundbreaking new podcast series in Irish prisons

The award-winning podcasters, both former prisoners, were given an unprecedented opportunity to visit three Irish jails to meet and talk to inmates

'Going into Limerick prison to meet Geraldine Sutton, our first interviewee, was a full circle moment for us.' James Leonard and Timmy Long with Geraldine Sutton in Limerick prison. 

Being back in prison for the first time since serving a custodial sentence was “nerve-wracking and weird, but exciting,” for James Leonard, one half of the hugely popular Two Norries Podcast. 

“Me and Timmy [Long] both have a background of addiction and prison stints before we got into recovery, so to be invited back in to interview prisoners for our podcast — something that’s never been done before — was fairly mad,” the Cork northsider reflected.

“They even laid on posh biscuits for us,” he added.

Award-winning podcasters Timmy Long and James Leonard during one of their current series of live theatre shows, at Cork Opera House earlier this year with guest, Pat Falvey. Picture: Jim Coughlan

The Cork men were invited to interview prisoners for their podcast, which focuses on mental health and addiction, after the Irish Prison Service (IPS) saw an uptick in inmates engaging with education and psychology services as a result of The Two Norries Podcast being streamed in prisons during lockdown, when visitations ceased and gyms were closed.

A year on, they have just released a three-part series interviewing three prisoners — Geraldine, Michael, and Paddy — who are serving sentences in Limerick, Cork, and Mountjoy.

Going into Limerick prison to meet Geraldine Sutton, our first interviewee, was a full circle moment for us. 

“Some of the other girls in there got her done up on the landing. She was nervous and so were we.

“We didn’t ask her what she was in for. We didn’t want to sensationalise these people’s lives or disregard the feelings of any victims in the community,” James said.

"We wanted to help people understand how people end up in the system, and what life is really like in prison." 

Limerick Prison: 'It’s important to invest in rehabilitation, so prison can give people the chance to live a different life when they leave,' says Ciaron McCauley of the Irish Prison Service.

“You can hear the nerves of both parties when the interview starts. It’s not every day a prisoner comes on a podcast,” Timmy says to break the ice.

Geraldine replied: “‘No, it’s not something you’d normally see, but we’ll give it a go.’”

Yet from there the interview flows easily, the boys are able to compare their own experiences growing up in Cork and battling addiction to Geraldine’s experiences in Waterford, and to being driven into a life of crime to fund a heroin habit.

“We were able to identify with Geraldine,” James said. “Life inside has given her a kind of stability that she never got to experience in the real world. After three years she’s been able to engage with addiction and education services, and she’s started working with the Samaritans.”

Since getting sober and obtaining a Masters in Criminology from UCC, the Knocknaheeny man has worked in addiction services and community healthcare.

“We started the podcast to change people’s perspective on rehabilitation. It’s for anybody, you can bounce back from mistakes when you start to realise there’s more out there for you — often people who end up in the system have no history of education or opportunity,” James said.

The second episode sees the lads chat to Michael Maughan, a 28-year-old traveller from Castlebar in Cork Prison.

“Michael went into the system at 19 and was handed a 15-year sentence at 21. But when you look back at his childhood you aren’t surprised at how it happened,” James said. 

Taoiseach Micheál Martin, one of many prominent guests of the Two Norries, James Leonard and Tim Long.

“A teacher called him a knacker and told him that no-one wanted him there when he got to secondary school. 

"When another student called him that name afterwards, he pushed him off his bike. At 13 he was expelled, with no other school willing to take him: 

It isn’t hard to see where things went wrong. 

Ciaron McCauley, the head of communications at IPS, says that, through their podcast, the Two Norries have “shown people what is possible for people when they engage with services in prison”.

“Over 70% of prisoners have a history of addiction,” he said. “When they come into prison it’s an opportunity to break that cycle and go on a different path in life.

“For an awful lot of people, prison isn’t a deterrent. Their lives are chaotic, and they have a better quality of life in prison than what they’ve experienced in the community. 

"That’s why it’s important to invest in rehabilitation, so prison can give people the chance to live a different life when they leave,” Mr McCauley added.

 • Visit TwoNorries.com, or find them on your favourite podcast platform.