‘I am not as scared as I once was': Charlene McKenna on ageing, burnout and married life

'When I was in my 20s, I had this notion that you had to make it by a certain time... I've never been as busy. So, that's blown that theory out of the water'

Charlene McKenna: “I am an Aries. I never want to be bored.”  Pics: Barry McCall

Growing up as the only girl in a family of five older brothers in rural County Monaghan, it's perhaps unsurprising that Charlene McKenna isn’t afraid of a challenge. Her worst fear is monotony.

“I’ve never wanted to be same-y,” she says, as she leans forwards on the table, “I am an Aries. I never want to be bored.” 

She’s dressed in a vivid orange blouse that makes her eyes pop when we meet in Dún Laoghaire’s Royal Marine Hotel. There’s a sparkle in those eyes, big as saucers, as she answers my questions, despite the fact she tells me she feels as though she’s speaking to me “in a dream,” such is her level of exhaustion.

The fatigue is understandable. When we speak, she’s just wrapped Clean Sweep, an international co-production coming to RTÉ next Sunday. In the past two years, there’s also been Peaky Blinders, where she played IRA boss Captain Swing; the TV adaptation of Graham Norton's novel, Holding, where she played Evelyn Ross, a woman having an affair with a teenager; another season of British police procedural Bloodlands, where she portrays DS Niamh McGovern; and series three of 1900s era Vienna Blood as Leah Liebermann. At 39, she’s never been as busy.

"When I was in my 20s, I had this notion that you had to make it by a certain time,” she confesses, “I thought [this was] when it starts to dwindle. There was this nonsense narrative about ‘women in their 40s’.

“Touch all the wood in the room,” she says reaching out to the table in front her, “I've never been as busy. So, that's blown that theory out of the water."

Charlene McKenna: "When I was in my 20s, I had this notion that you had to make it by a certain time,”

McKenna, who first became a household name during her time portraying JoJo Harte in RTÉ five-season drama Raw, has had even more on her plate than usual in her latest project for the national broadcaster. For the first time in her more than two-decade-long career, she worked behind – as well as in front – of the camera for Clean Sweep, as an executive producer. The role of an EP in any given project can widely vary she tells me, but for her, the focus was on the script – and somewhat, in the casting process.

“I wanted to pick some of my team to go into battle with me,” she says. That team includes fellow Irish actors Barry Ward ( Bad Sisters), Trevor Kaneswaran ( Line of Duty), Jeanne Nicole Ni Áinle (North Sea Connection) and Cathy Belton ( Red Rock).

"It's been a real learning curve,” she says, taking a swig of water from a bottle emblazoned with the Peaky Blinders logo. “I enjoyed dipping more into behind the camera... but, it's been tough,” she says, pointing to the fact her portrayal of super-mum with a murderous past, Shelly Mohan, meant she was on camera for nearly every scene of the ten-week shoot.

Charlene McKenna: “I wonder what the crash is going to look like now when I stop."

Last year, she told a reporter her only break in twelve months had been a two-week break in which she wed Ozark star Adam Rothenberg for the second time (the first was a ‘covid wedding,’ with guests limited to six – like many other couples who wed during that time, they wanted a redo), flying in from a shoot only the night before the ‘I do’s’ at her home county's Castle Leslie, followed by a honeymoon in France, and back to work.

McKenna has been open in the past about how an unforgiving workload and inability to give herself a break led to a breakdown in 2009. Is there a danger she’s headed in a similar direction?

“I have been thinking about this,” she says. “I wonder what the crash is going to look like now when I stop. I think it's very important, if there's going to be one, to face it.

“I think the difference between back then and now is I have a wonderful therapist, I have great tools, tricks, I know my ‘triggers,” she says, rolling her eyes at her use of the term.

"Sometimes, it creeps up on you, but...you go, ‘there's that feeling’. Before, I was absolutely running blind. Now, I'm not running blind. And I'm older. I have a better base. I'm not as scared as I once was. When I was younger, I thought, ‘that’s it.’ I don't have that so much anymore.” 

Charlene McKenna: “I have learned to say no, a little, but it doesn't come naturally."

She also has a lot of people looking out for her these days, she says, crediting her agent and husband in particular; “He's been the glue keeping me together.” 

A culture of burnout, the hustle – it's become the norm, the standard for us all, especially those in the creative fields, I offer.

"I would fall completely into the category of that,” she agrees, “I have learned to say no, a little, but it doesn't come naturally. I think maybe the instinct comes naturally but then you override that.” 

She still struggles to turn down work if she’s free, she admits somewhat sheepishly, it’s more choosing between one project or another.

"You chose one and then the other one's massive and you're like, dammit!,” she laughs. “You just have to get philosophical. I do very much go ‘well, I'm not meant to be doing it’. 

What else are you going to do? Go nuts with the regret?

Of course with the projects that go big, there’s always the somewhat unwelcome side effect of fame – McKenna visibly winces when I mention it in relation to her own stardom. 

"Do I get recognized on the street? Yeah. I get recognized loads... is that fame? To me, no. Beyoncé is famous. Kim Kardashian is famous.

“I know if I go out looking like shite, I'll probably meet someone,” she says, laughing.

“It is lovely though,” she says of meeting fans. "But you just think ‘Oh God, please, me? Aim higher."

Charlene McKenna as Shelly Mohan in Clean Sweep. Pic: Deirdre Brennan.

She’s had experiences of fans becoming starstruck in her presence, and admits it makes her feel uncomfortable – but, she says, having been in the same room as Beyoncé (she didn’t meet her, but she did make eye contact), she understands how it feels to be in the presence of someone who seems greater than the sum of their parts.

"You're so awkward,” she says, “They think that I'm in charge, that I know what to do and say. I'm just a bumbling tulip as well. But you have to take on the persona.... what would a famous person do in this scenario? I've learned that over the years. They want their picture, and you want them to have it. So you're like... ‘hold the camera a bit higher there, take another one, bye now’... don't be lingering now, because now I don't know what to say!” 

But, despite starring in one of the biggest shows in recent years, and working non-stop last year, McKenna says she still lives with the “existential terror” that if she steps off the merry-go-around, it might just stop altogether.

"That existential terror, the dread,” she says, “it doesn't go away. I'd be nervous taking time off because you're like... will that be it then?” 

“The other side of the feeling nervous, I think is.. you feel nervous to be yourself for a while,” she admits.

"Oh, I just have to be me now? What does she do?”

I just hope she gets some sleep – she's earned it.

• Clean Sweep starts on RTÉ One and RTÉ Player on Sunday, May 14