Fergie: Rooney did ask to leave
Rose began by painting a picture for the American viewer and Ferguson spoke about his overarching philosophy when starting off at the club: building a comprehensive youth structure which would resemble the impact of the Busby Babes. The conversation would proceed to incorporate many topics including the Scot’s fascination with the US Civil War. The following is an edited extract from the interview.
Alex Ferguson: The way that the game has changed [because of] satellite television and the money that has been ploughed in, it gives clubs the opportunity... even middle-of-the-league teams are spending POUNDS 25 million on players. At United we do buy players but we also have this great youth system to produce our own players
Time is the secret. you can create a team for five or six years, you can also create a great loyalty. The manager that gave them the first chance, they’ll always remember that, they’ll always appreciate that..
I never worried about teams who spend what they want to spend... At the moment we have a lot of Middle Eastern owners, we have American owners of course, Russian owners. It never bothered me one bit. All I was concerned about was that we at United maintained our level of expectation, be competitive, be at the top of the league..
The only consideration I had was to make sure that we are there. You do things different ways. I’ve spoken about young players, and yes, that’s really important that part, but from time to time we have spent big money and brought in the player who could make a difference
Charlie Rose: Who is the best player you ever saw
AF: I’m a Pele fan from way back when I was a kid, and then there was always this thing later about Pele and Maradona. I think that you have got to look at Messi and Ronaldo. They are unbelievable. The best today. They are fantastic – absolutely..
The best have the courage and I say this all the time. The courage to take the ball all the time, the courage to make sure that they are not going to be intimidated by their opponents and the courage to express themselves at all times and I think that the great players have got that
CR: Are they born with it
AF Possibly, yeah... You can develop them through coaching but I don’t know that you can ever develop the courage. I think that makes a big difference – you either have courage or you have not..
When we assessed teams, we looked at who was their player who wanted the ball all the time, who is the one who wants to take the free-kicks all the time, who wants to dominate, and that’s the one that you concentrate upon
CR: This is what the Economist Magazine said about you: “Mr Ferguson could reasonably be described as Britain’s Steve Jobs, given his unorthodox, talent-obsessed and sometimes bruising approach to making something beautiful”. Did you think that you were making something beautiful
AF: I think that the encouragement that I got from the club during the early days when they stood by me when the times were really difficult, really helped me a lot
CR: People wanted you fired didn’t they
AF Yes, exactly. One or two banners were up saying ‘time up’ and things like that... at that period I did lose a little bit of confidence. However, I didn’t lose my determination. I knew that the things which I was doing at youth level were correct. So the board, Martin Edwards the chairman and Bobby Charlton in particular, stood by me because they knew what was happening. So by doing that, I then knew that I was doing something special with these young players – Beckham, Giggs, Scholes, the Nevilles, Butt. They all came into the first team around about the same time. So when people assess United today, they maybe don’t understand that those boys were the spirit of the club. They created the fantastic spirit of Manchester United as it is today
CR: Looking at the Harvard Business Review. You went up there and they developed a key study. What was the question? Generally these things have a question
AF: The main central point of the discussion was love and hate. Do the players love me or do they hate me or was there a balance? Of course there was also many different opinions about that, but the central thing to it all was respect. That was always looked for: respect
CR: Suppose that they said love or fear
AF: Yes, I think that fear does come into it in some respect in the sense of when I lost my temper I didn’t hide behind a bush on it in respect to the times that I lost my temper. But you know the quality that I had when I lost my temper, I never, ever brought it back again. The next day was another day for me..
CR: So you go to Harvard Business School and they want to do this case study about all this and the question of love versus hate, and you come up with this thing called the ‘Ferguson Formula’. A formula for leadership, a formula for what? Management
AF: I think that leadership comes along, there’s no question about that, how you have control of a bunch of millionaires... You have to control that part. I think that there are certain things that I would like to put across, and it was always to make the players better human beings, to develop their character, so that when they leave me they could go anywhere… it’s about inspiring them to be the best that they could possibly be
CR: You are teaching them life
AF: Yes, I think that is really important. You also develop their character. You know that if you develop the right character, they won’t let you down. Once they go out on that football field, they are playing for all the things that you have ever taught them. Of the winning mentality, of the determination. How to handle defeat which is always just as important. It helps you develop a group of people that are you. You can see yourself in them
CR: So every team member that plays for you, you look at him and see yourself
AF: Not all of them, but I do like to try and see myself in them. Everybody is different and express themselves in different ways. There are different kinds of talents of course and there are many who I would never have had the talent that they have when I was a player. But I still had that determination to be successful and try my best
CR: You were talking about the idea that often the best players don’t make good coaches or good managers because they don’t understand someone who doesn’t have the same skill level
AF: I remember that I was talking to Bobby Charlton about that, and he’d been the manager at Preston North End and he couldn’t understand why the players could not understand him. So he gave up on it and he was honest enough to say to himself that it wasn’t for him. It’s a fact of life, I think that if you look at my career and I always say this to anybody who wants to be a coach: ‘prepare to be a coach’. At 24 years of age when I left engineering to become full time in football, I made sure that I was never going back to engineering. I was doing all the coaching schools so that I’d be able to stay in the game, and I gave myself a chance by [doing] that. I was only an average player, could score a goal or two, that sort of thing, but I wasn’t a Bobby Charlton or a Messi, or Ronaldo obviously. There are very, very few really great players who have become great coaches. I think that you can look at Beckenbauer who won the World Cup with Germany, once as a player and once as coach. You could look at Cruyff who was a great player and did great things at Barcelona. Other than that I can’t think of any of the really great players who have gone on to become great coaches
CR: Would it have been impossible to manage anywhere else
AF: There was one or two offers came along during my time at United but I always came back to this point: why would you leave United? Where is the bigger challenge? And the thing about challenge is this: once you have won something, you can’t live on that. Not at Manchester United – you have got to win the next one. And that’s the challenge. Maintaining that consistency of winning which is a mentality that I have had. Every time we won the league, we would celebrate that night – the next day was another day for me. Where are we going forward? So therefore when clubs came to me and offered me jobs, I thought to myself, ‘Where is the bigger challenge?’ Creating history at United or trying to create somewhere else where I would have start again and build on the philosophies I had when I first came to United..
I believe in building a football club rather than building a football team. I can understand coaches who concentrate on building a football team because it gives them a job. It’s a results industry. You only have to look at Paolo Di Canio last week – five, six games into his first season at Sunderland. They allow him to spend £19 million and then they sack him. To me, there is no evidence that that is going to bring success. So in building a football club I wasn’t interested in losing my job because of the results of the first team. I knew that I had to do a job in terms of building the football club, so we worked really hard with the youth system and we made sure that we had a solid foundation that would hold the fort for years and years..
The horrible part of the job really is when you have players who have been with you for years - the evidence is always on the football field so when you see a player and you notice that the level has started to dip, there is no point in waiting another two years. You have to act because you will only hurt yourself. He’ll not want to recognise that the day has come when he has had his time. To have to say that to a player and make the change is very, very difficult. You can only do that if you have a system where you can fill the gaps and rebuild the team. Over the years I have probably built maybe five teams, through the consistency of being there as a manager, and the continuity of the youth system and the players that you have are not joining last
CR: So the main point here is that you have got to be ruled by your head and not your heart
AF: Absolutely. It’s a horrible part of the game when you have to tell a player, probably somebody who has helped you win so much that his time is up. You treat them like family, and because they are your family it becomes even more hurting in the sense that you have got to say ‘well son, I’m sorry, you won’t be a regular here, but you will still have a career elsewhere’. It’s happened more than a few times but it is not an easy thing to handle..
I always said to the directors that the minute a player becomes more powerful than the manager of Manchester United, it’s not Manchester United. You have lost control of the whole club. So I always made sure that I was in control. They always knew who the manager was
CR: Your word was law
AF: If you want to put it as blunt as that - yes. But you don’t necessarily need to use power in that situation. the control is nice but they know who the manager is, and they know that it is me who is going to make the decisions. They know that they can trust me which is really important
CR: What does it mean: ‘match the message to the moment’
AF: The moment that we look for is that they are aware that every game is about winning. We try to get the message across that this is the moment that we have got to win. Every week, my expectation of you is to win the match
There has to be a moment when they realise that they have to show their character to overcome this. We’ve had some great moments. We’ve been behind at half-time and winning games late on
CR: You liked that didn’t you
AF: Oh yes. I loved that. I was a bit of a gambler that way because I always used to say to them at half-time, ‘Be patient. The last fifteen minutes throw the kitchen sink at them. It’s worth a gamble’. You are going to lose the game anyway. There is nothing better than when you get to that last 15 minutes and you actually win the game late on. The fans are going out of the gates I gave it a try and it worked
CR: Let me talk about some of the great players. Ryan Giggs you mentioned. You and I talked about it the other night. You said to me you’ve got to get to their mother.
AF: It got to a level when Ryan’s mother says we’ll be back on Thursday. She was buying tea for us, getting us supper... The mother’s the secret -- the mothers are always the strong character in the family without question. I say always get the mother… There’s always danger with the father. He tries to live his life through the boy, you know. You get a little bit of that. Not all of them. But you do. I’ve seen evidence of that and therefore the mothers, no, she won’t do it that way. She’s [all about] ‘my boy, I want the best for my boy’
CR: Gary Neville.
AF: Fantastic character. Gary gets up every morning at 6am reads every newspaper. He wants to know what’s going on in the world and has a moan about everything, you know. He’s such a successful person. He’s now doing this television work, he’s very good. He’s also got his own business. I wanted to bring him on the staff. He didn’t want to do that - he’s now with the English FA, he’s got many hats, a very, very determined character
CR: And then there was a fellow named David Beckham
AF: David, yeah - amazing boy. I mean how he’s created himself. He’s an icon for young people, it’s fantastic. I mean he’s a wonderful boy. He always had a lovely smile, you know, and he always presents himself well. But as a young kid when I got him at 12 years of age, his great desire was to be the best. He was a fantastic trainer, practiced all the time and at night he would come back with the schoolboys and practice with them. And he was in that collection along with Giggs and Scholes. And then of course his life changed when he married the girl from [Spice Girls] And his focus changed… He got drawn into that celebrity status, you know. For me I’m a football man. I’m a football man… He lost the focus… I just think it was over his head. I don’t think he could listen. I always remember [him saying] ‘I’m in love’ and there was nothing you can do with that, you know. And therefore he lost the focus.
I sold him to Real Madrid. He did well. The thing I couldn’t believe is that he went to LA Galaxy, I couldn’t believe that. I couldn’t understand that. I would never have allowed him to do that, you know. If I was going to let him go, I was going to make sure he went to the best and Real Madrid was the best outside of United. And he reinvented himself, of course, and plays for the English team after a couple of years. He goes and plays for AC Milan in a European tie. And last year he plays for PSG in a quarter-final of the European Cup. He’s unbelievable. And well done to him. You can’t argue with the status he has in life...
[...]
CR: When the Glazer family first got involved, it was 1995, was it?
AF: Yeah
CR: What did it change?
AF: It changed nothing, Charlie
CR: Nothing
AF: No, not a thing… There is a misconception about the Glazers buying the club that created hostility and different factions of Manchester United supporters and because a single member was owning the club. They forget, the minute it became a PLC someone was going to buy it. Somewhere along the line someone’s going to buy that club. The Glazers did that. And in my time with them, they were nothing but supportive. Very strong, single-minded people but always supportive of the manager and the things that happen in the club. They’ve been very good. And I’ve absolutely no hesitation in supporting the way they’ve gone about the job, very low key, never give me a phone call.
CR: When you think about the record, the career, the wins, the losses, what do you remember? Do you remember the losses or the wins
AF: That’s a good one. I could tell you about the bad losses we’ve had. Losing 6-1 to City and 5-1 to City is the games you never forget. But I remember we lost a City game and I came home and I put my head under the pillow. And my wife came in and says what’s wrong with you. I said we lost 5-1. She said no, you couldn’t have lost 5-1.
[Continuing on the theme of his wife Cathy]
AF: She brought up all the kids. Because when you go back to my older days, 32 years of age... we were running two bars in Glasgow and part-time at football you know. Cathy’s got [the boys] - getting them dressed, going to school, doing the homework with them, putting them to bed. All the same and so that role was fantastic, there’s no question. I always remember she used to say to me when they get to 16 they will be daddy’s boys. I say why do you make that kind of statement. ‘You wait’. She’s always right. Even at home she’s always right
CR: What happened to you and Wayne Rooney
AF: Well, I don’t think anything really happened that I would get upset about. He came in the day after we won the league, it’s common knowledge, and he asked away and it’s just an expectation thing again. I’m not his PRO, I manage a team how I see it but at that particular moment he wasn’t doing particularly well. But now we see him today, he’s got his energy back and he’s doing great. So maybe that was a good turning point for the boy… I think if Wayne walked in here today, he would shake my hand
CR: When was the last time you shook his hand
AF: When we were presented with the league trophy... You see you've got to also look at the media. What’s unfortunate in this is that he’s England’s big white hope… so therefore the media’s always centered around Wayne. And he has people who advise him and I think that’s where all that’s coming from. I never fell out with him at any time. Sometimes I would discipline him … but not to the extent that you would think there was some sort of [major problem]..
When the club [refused] to sell him to Chelsea, he realised his only job is with Manchester United and it’s brought back his focus, it’s brought back his work ethic and his purpose and he’s doing well again.
CR: What do you think of Roman Abramovich, speaking of Chelsea?
AF: It’s a strange one, Chelsea, you know, they change their manager so many times. They’ve won the European Cup, three leagues, the FA Cup in Abramovich’s time and yet they keep changing the coach, you know. That works for them in terms of keep winning. But you look at the long term situation and you’d worry about that. In the last few years, they’ve been our main competitor
CR: Suppose he came to you... maybe he has
AF: [Laughing] There was - he used an agent when he first came and approached me and I said no, no chance.
CR: You couldn’t do that. No chance. You didn’t even want to have the conversation.
AF: No.
CR: You didn’t want to see what they would offer.
AF: No.
CR: You just said no chance. I could never be that way for the team that was a rival where I made my home.
AF: Manchester United is my team, my club.
CR: So anybody who speculates that you may be back in football in any way is simply wrong.
AF: The job came up there, they always say the odds are 80-1 Ferguson. Good odds, huh? You will be wasting your money. You’ll be throwing your money down the drain.
CR: No way. No way Ferguson is back in football
AF: I made my decision Charlie. The timing was perfect. I went out a winner. There’s no way back. I look forward to the challenges of a new life and doing the things I’ve been waiting maybe 35 years to do… You know, I want to go to the Kentucky Derby. I want to go to The Masters. I want to go to the Melbourne Cup but don’t tell Cathy that… I’ll try and find a way to tunnel through the ground so she doesn’t notice... There are a lot of things I want to do..
I was just about looking forward. I’m not interested in managing. I’m not interested in getting myself worked up over United results. In good times, I do - you might as well do a good job.
CR: You’re still behind (David Moyes).
AF: Absolutely, 100%. And all the club will be. That’s the great thing about the club. They will support the manager and he will be fine, he will be good.
CR: You’re a big Labour Party man, aren’t you?
AF: Yes. That won’t change ever, I won’t change that ever. I’ve been tempted to go to the Scottish National Party
CR: I know, why don’t you like Scottish nationalism? I don’t understand that. I mean my friend Sean Connery is all aboard
AF: Oh yes, Sean is very much ... he’s from Edinburgh. [Laughing] No, I grew up in a socialist background. My father was a socialist. My mother was a socialist... Why change? It’s never hurt me not changing. So I won’t change. And I think that Britain [being] united is ok.
CR: You’ve written your own biography, you did that about 10 years ago... What’s the best moment ever for you in football
AF: The best moment has to be Barcelona, of course. That was the trophy I never won. That was always the albatross around my neck. Winning that particular one and the way we did it, you can never forget it. But I think that to encapsulate my life, to have 27 years at Manchester United is a feat, it’s an achievement, the continuity and the consistency that I created there and going out at the top, I can’t ask for anything more. I’ve achieved everything I ever wanted to achieve. And I’m going out a happy man.
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