The art of turning dog’s dinners into oysters

Shane Ross tells Political Editor Daniel McConnell of difficulties passing legislation and of Sean Canney’s departure from an alliance that still strongly backs the Government.

Two months ago, Attorney General Seamus Woulfe made headlines when he described the controversial Judicial Appointments Bill as a “dog’s dinner”.

Woulfe’s comments about the bill, which is seeking to change the way judges are appointed, made the lead story in this newspaper and others caused a political maelstrom which continued for weeks.

The bill’s chief sponsor, Independent Alliance TD and Transport Minister Shane Ross, was not happy.

Speaking in an interview with the Irish Examiner in a wide-ranging interview (he rarely does print interviews these days), Ross reveals his unhappiness at the episode.

He criticises Woulfe for speaking in the manner in which he did, even though the AG’s criticisms were not of Ross, but of the Opposition’s amendments to the bill.

“I would have preferred if he had not said it,” says Ross. “What he was referring to was Fianna Fáil’s amendments, not the Government’s work.

“But it was deliberately taken up by some people as ‘Shane Ross’ bill is a dog’s dinner’ and that we had made a dog’s dinner of it. What he was saying, in a colourful phrase, and that is fine, he was referring to the FF amendment which had changed the bill in a way that was unrecognisable.”

Ross and his Independent Alliance have sought to break the cosy relationship between politicians and their cronies who seek selection to the benches in the Four Courts.

The bill is “truly transformative”, he says, has been rescued by the AG, and is now akin to plate of fine cuisine, such is the good state it is in.

“Those have been reveresed and the dog’s dinners has become a plate of caviar and oysters. It is now pretty well sorted,” Ross says.

Ross, does however, give voice to much speculation that there is limited appetite within Fine Gael to see this highly controversial bill pass.

“There is no point in pretending that this is a FG bill

“It is not. It is an Independent Alliance bill," he says.

“But it is set in stone and we have to pay a price for being in government... and sometimes we have to swallow things you don’t like, and they bought into it. There are varying degrees of enthusiasm within FG for this bill.

“There are some people who are very enthusiastic and there are others who are not very comfortable with it at all.”

While Taoiseach Leo Varadkar is a firm backer of the bill, the same cannot be said for Justice Minister Charlie

Flanagan, previously a lawyer, who is known to be at best lukewarm about it.

Ross acknowledges this. “I don’t know if this would have been the first bill on his list, if he had his own way, but he has taken this on with enthusiasm and vigour and he will put it through,” he says.

Reports have surfaced that the two have gone toe to toe over the bill, and Ross does little to quell such talk.

“I have spoken to him privately virtually every week on various issues,” he says of Flanagan. “We have had discussions which have been very robust, but we are very good friends. And when judges are going to be appointed, it is a matter of some difficulty, but I have spoken to him as to how it will be managed, that there are the real need in the courts, I am happy not to oppose them.

“It is about a balance, about saying hey we don’t like the system, we don’t like judges being appointed this way but equally we recognise that there is a queue and they have to be where there is a real need. What we want to do is get the new system passed and up and running and then there won’t be anymore criticism of it.” I ask Ross how he has found life in Government.

“It is harder than I thought,” he says.

Getting legislation drafted is much more complicated than I thought. I wasn’t at all aware of the incredible procedures that you have to go through to get legislation through

He concedes the slow pace of bureaucracy can be highly annoying.

“One of the things that really surprised me is that virtually everything has to go to the Attorney General and there is a bottleneck there,” he says. “So that is very frustrating.

“That has been true of both of the drink driving bill and the judicial appointments bill. But is probably a very good thing as they save them from being challenged in the courts.”

He also accuses his officials of being overly cautious, which also adds to the delays of things getting done.

“But I am constantly saying to my officials: ‘Can we get this through next week?’ And they say ‘no’. They are very, very cautious. Are they too cautious? Yes, but they also save you a lot of trouble by not allowing a bad bill go through.”

Earlier this year, the Independent Alliance lost Sean Canney over a row over a junior ministry post.

Ross says he was “sorry” to see Canney going, despite the two having a notoriously bad relationship.

“I wasn’t aware it was such a big issue at all,” he says. “I think maybe we should have gotten another ministry. It is a pity we had a bust up over a job. Whereas a bust up over policy you could understand, but a bust up over a job, I am sorry about that.

“My understanding that Boxer [Longford-Westmeath TD Kevin ‘Boxer’ Moran] kept it;Sean got the benefit of going first. That wasn’t his understanding and that is a pity. The alliance

remains strong, we haven’t lost any councillors and maybe he might come back.”

The minister does admit to some annoyance at Canney’s public opposition to his Road Traffic Bill, which sought to reduce drink-driving limits. He says he wished Canney would have “kept his mouth shut” rather than opposing the bill so pointedly in the Dáil.

Canney stood with other rural TDs in the Dáil on a vote on the bill, much to Ross’ disgust.

“He had major problems with the drink-driving bill, whereas Boxer came on board,” says Ross. “That made life difficult, as to have one of your ministerial colleagues opposing you in public was not easy.

“I would have preferred if he had kept his mouth shut but it did not have a material impact on the passage of the bill. It was a point of conflict and he could have been less combative but he felt very strong about it.

I think the rural TDs including Sean and Mattie and the Healy Raes have gotten it wrong on this bill.

“The evidence there in the referendum campaign is that they are out of touch with rural Ireland. Kilgarvan went two to one in favour. Are these guys out of touch or what?”

He stresses the remaining Alliance members — Ross, Moran, Finian McGrath, and John Halligan — are strong and committed to keeping the Government going.

“We are very happy. The great strength is that we get on, exceptionally well. And we laugh a lot. And that helps as we often don’t agree with each other.

“Everybody, we all have a common ambition to be radical but not to do anything to destabilise the Government.”