‘You can have too many choices’

John Bruton sees the abortion issue as one of human rights, writes John Riordan in New York

JOHN BRUTON is having a busy day. A stiff wind blows down Broad St in Lower Manhattan as the former taoiseach readies himself for a tour of the New York Stock Exchange.

“I like this city but I don’t know if I could live here,” he tells the Irish Examiner.

It might be a big place but he’s already seen evidence of a small town vibe during his two-day tour to the city. Earlier on Wednesday he bumped into the former governor of Pennsylvania, Ed Rendell, on the street, a man he came to know during his days as EU ambassador to the US.

Time constraints mean this interview is divided into two sittings in two parts of Manhattan. The first line of questioning is decidedly in his wheelhouse, discussing the budget back home while surrounded by the financial district which will host him for the afternoon in his role as president of the International Financial Services Centre (IFSC).

But the second section later that day at the Midtown residence of Consul General Noel Kilkenny is a topic he is not too keen to be drawn on: abortion.

Mr Bruton oversaw the divorce referendum but there is no comparison, he admits.

“We were dealing with a reality that already existed in the sense that there were a very large number of couples who had broken up, were separated in accordance with law, and some of them wanted to remarry.

“It wasn’t as difficult an issue because no lives were at stake. It was a case of facilitating people to do what they were willing to do in accordance with their own ethical viewpoint.”

The abortion issue has caused a number of his former party’s backbenchers to agitate as concern grows that objections to the threat of suicide being a grounds for abortion is not quite getting the airplay they’d like.

Mr Bruton says he never had a similar problem with his troops during the divorce referendum but his sympathies lie firmly with the current crop of backbenchers. “This is an issue that is a lot more fundamental,” he says.

“This is an issue, as I see it, about human rights. What is a human being and at what stage does one acquire human rights? Do you have to wait until you’re born to become a human or is it before you’re born?

“If you’re human before you’re born, what rights do you have as a human? The Irish Constitution now says there’s an equal right to life of the mother and the unborn child.

“It’s easy to imagine that one could have legislation to define rights where there is a medical issue in which the person has no control. A medical judgment can be made to allow a termination in which the mother’s life is at risk.

“It’s harder, however, to see how you could possibly legislate for a threat of somebody saying they’re going to kill themselves...

“I think it’s going to be very difficult — if not impossible — to draft legislation to provide for a claim that one intends to commit suicide as grounds for the ending of another life,” Mr Bruton says.

“Science as it’s advancing is showing that many of the characteristics that make us human are present a lot earlier than we might have thought. The strange thing is that while the progression in science is telling us that life begins earlier, the progression in some sectors of public opinion is saying you can disregard it.

“There is a tendency to elevate the notion of choice to being the ultimate value. I think life is the ultimate value, not choice. I think choice is important but often it doesn’t enhance your life at all. You can have too many choices.

“I think this is a human rights issue,” he reiterates. “I don’t think this is a religious issue. You can have no religious beliefs and take a particular view about human life and human rights.”

When Fine Gael returned to government 30 years ago this month, Mr Bruton was made finance minister and first came to know Consul General Kilkenny when the latter served as the then foreign affairs minister Peter Barry’s private secretary.

Now the pair are back together in New York to help launch the Green IFSC Global Roadshow as Ireland seeks to put itself out in front for green asset management.

“I was minister for finance during difficult times in Ireland but the scale of the problem now is greater now than it was then, of course. I have a lot of sympathy for the government in what they have to do. There is an end in sight in 2014 when there will be a primary surplus. That is a goal which will be attained.”

In a blog post recently, he suggested a Public Expenditure Commissioner should be tasked with “comparing different types of public spending and tax breaks here, with those applying in other jurisdictions”. Public service pensions were among the would-be outgoings under the spotlight.

Does he think his own pension should be cut further? “It’s certainly something that should be considered, all of these issues across the board should be. No option should be excluded. It’s not for me to be any more specific on that.”