Candid interview between the Two Norries and Micheál Martin on his past and present

Taoiseach Micheál Martin in the Two Norries’ studio with James Leonard and Tim Long.

The Taoiseach has spoken about how his grandmother helped old IRA prisoners escape from a mental hospital during the War of Independence and of how two of his uncles joined the British army while his father joined the Irish Army and boxed for Ireland.

Micheál Martin also describes how as a college student, he travelled with friends to "a tense" West Belfast during the height of the Troubles to meet members of the UDA and other groups in a bid to understand all sides of the conflict.

He says his family’s complex history informed his own world view, his journey into politics, and may even have helped shape his Shared Island initiative which seeks to develop an all-island approach to a range of climate and biodiversity projects and encourage inclusive dialogue towards building lasting peace.

He makes his comments in a candid and wide-ranging interview with the Two Norries podcast, which goes live today.

Hosts James Leonard and Timmy Long spent 80-minutes before Christmas talking to the Taoiseach about his childhood and upbringing in a working-class family in the Capwell area of Cork city, about his love of sport, his passion for education, and his life in politics.

He talks openly about how his maternal grandmother, Margaret Ahern, was active in Cumann na mBan during the War of Independence and worked as an attendant in a mental hospital on Cork’s Lee Road from 916 until she left to get married in 1923.

During that time, members of the IRA often faked mental illness so they could be transferred to the hospital where they stood a better chance of escape.

Among the prisoners, Ms Ahern helped escape was Sean Moylan, a Sinn Fein activist, an IRA commander who went on to become a Fianna Fáil TD and minister.

Mr Martin describes her as the matriarch of the family, as “strong-willed, a bit of a firebrand who took no-nonsense.” 

But he also speaks about how two of his father, Paddy’s brothers, Philip and Dick, joined the British Army.

Philip, who played soccer with the British combined services, spent three years in a Japanese prisoner of war camp after the fall of Singapore, before being released and going on to become a great football scout and a Conservative Party supporter, while Dick became a lifelong member of the Labour Party.

But Paddy resisted certain pressure to join the British Army, opting instead to join the Irish Army where he learned to box and went on to fight in the ring for Ireland, and was nicknamed The Champ.

The Taoiseach said his father was a Fianna Fáil supporter, which in turn influenced his own political destiny.

“When I went into politics first, I was knocking on doors in Ballyphehane and had all my ideas, but the first question was: ‘are you anything to ‘The Champ?’ 

“They’d say, well if you’re half the man he was now, we’ll give you a vote.

“So I went back to the team and said we better put a line into the literature to say ‘I’m the son of Paddy Martin’.” 

He also describes his wife, Mary, as his bedrock and conscience, and says he wouldn’t be where he is today without her.

And he said she’s of the view that life in politics today is much tougher than it was when he was first elected to Cork City Council in 1985, due in large part to social media commentary and abuse.

The Taoiseach also discusses his love of education and the importance of a more flexible education system that can accommodate different models of education that keep people in education, and facilitate those who learn differently.