Dowdall: 'You are doing your utmost best to destroy me'

Gerry Hutch's defence lawyer told the judge today that he may cross-examine Jonathan Dowdall until Wednesday next week

Former Sinn Fein councillor Jonathan Dowdall was cross-examined on Thursday about the recordings of his first interviews after he was arrested by gardaí in May 2016. He may be in the witness box for eight days. Picture: Elizabeth Cook/PA

“You’re doing your utmost best to destroy me in any way you can,” Jonathan Dowdall told defence counsel Brendan Grehan SC.

This was the third day of his cross-examination, and the former Sinn Féin councillor was telling Gerry ‘The Monk’ Hutch’s barrister that he had “embarrassed him” over medical issues and was “picking and choosing certain things” and “not putting a fair picture” across.

Just before this, Mr Grehan had asked him if it came as a shock when he’d been arrested in 2016. Mr Dowdall replied: “I don’t know.” Mr Grehan put it to him that he thought the inevitable answer would be yes.

And, indeed, much of Thursday was on the subject of truth and lies, and the increasingly fraught nature of this cross-examination of Dowdall. The fourth day of his evidence at the Special Criminal Court went as one may have expected by focusing on tapes.

But, it wasn’t the infamous tapes of the trip North with Gerry Hutch that was the focus of Mr Grehan’s questioning, it was the recordings of Dowdall’s first interviews after he was arrested by gardaí in May 2016. We haven’t even got to the other tapes yet. Mr Grehan has said that’ll be a “time-consuming process”.

At this stage, gardaí were aware that: 

• Jonathan Dowdall and Gerry Hutch had driven to the North on at least two occasions and had met with republicans post-Regency, 
• they met the man who’d be found with the AK-47-style guns used in the Regency when stopped by gardaí on March 9, 2016, 
• and that they’d raided Dowdall’s home barely an hour after the guns were found and discovered a USB key containing a video showing the former councillor and his father torturing a man.

Given the evidence that Dowdall has already told the court, that Mr Hutch admitted to him having shot David Byrne in the Regency Hotel and that Mr Hutch collected the card key to a Regency Hotel room off him and his father the night before, it was clear why Mr Grehan was playing this footage.

Mr Grehan began: “In your first three, four interviews with the guards, you’re all talk. I’m going to play some of them for you. What I’m suggesting is you come across as a very indignant, convincing person. But you’re telling lies.”  Dowdall said he wasn’t telling lies.

Here are some of the segments from those interviews:

“[Gerard Hutch] never said anything to me about being involved in [the Regency]. If he was involved in it, I don’t think the man is that stupid to tell me. Come on, let’s be honest.” 

“No, sure why would he [discuss it], I’m not a criminal.” 

“No, he never spoke to me in regard to the Regency.” 

Going by Dowdall’s account, he said he had no other choice but to say these things to gardaí at that time. He said there would’ve been “massive consequences I couldn’t afford to take”. He has said there were threats against himself and his family.

Given the evidence that Dowdall (second from right) has already told the court, that Gerry Hutch (third from left) admitted to him having shot David Byrne in the Regency Hotel and that Mr Hutch collected the card key to a Regency Hotel room off him and his father the night before, it was clear why Mr Grehan was playing this footage. Picture: Elizabeth Cook/PA

“Are you telling lies?” Mr Grehan asks him.

“No,” he said. “Some aspects I’m not telling the truth. But I’m not telling lies.” 

As different segments of his garda interviews were played out, things got increasingly testy.

Dowdall said: “Do I have to sit here to listen to stuff about my children? This is the fourth day I have to sit here and listen to this.” Mr Grehan put it to the witness that if he’d read the transcripts of these interviews, they wouldn’t have to be played in court.

“If I’d read them you'd have still played it,” Dowdall shot back.

Hutch’s defence barrister then put it to him: “You’re full of lies.” “I’m not,” Dowdall said.

“To ask you to agree something is a lie, you go into a big justification as for why you lied,” Mr Grehan then said.

“That’s your opinion,” was the answer.

“Can we go on a bit [more] today?” Mr Grehan asked.

“You’re the one in control, not me,” Dowdall replied.

Brendan Grehan (pictured) said to Dowdall in court on Thursday: “You’re full of lies.” File picture: Collins Courts

And we still have some way to go.

At the close of proceedings on Thursday, Ms Justice Tara Burns asked Mr Grehan to give an indication of how long more his cross-examination of Dowdall would last.

“I think realistically next week. Tuesday, if not Wednesday,” he said.

If it goes to Wednesday, that’ll mean Dowdall will have been in the witness box for eight days and we’ll be well into Christmas week.

Festive cheer may be distinctly lacking in courtroom 17 at that point, but the ongoing drama surrounding his trial will certainly not.