'I don't care if I'm killed; nobody will touch my children,' Dowdall tells Gerry Hutch trial

A fraught, tense day of cross-examination for State's witness Jonathan Dowdall

Court artist sketch by Elizabeth Cook of Jonathan Dowdall giving evidence in the trial at the Special Criminal Court of Gerry "The Monk" Hutch (third left) for the murder of David Byrne. It was brought to the court's attention today that videos had been circulated of court proceedings from the day before. File picture

Another gruelling and dramatic day of cross-examination for former Sinn Féin councillor Jonathan Dowdall was about to get under way that would end with his declaration of “I’m not a rat” and “I don’t care if I’m killed”.

He said what he was saying was the “gospel honest truth”. 

But to start with, Ms Justice Tara Burns had stern words. Prosecutor Sean Gillane SC had just brought it to her attention that videos had been circulated of court proceedings from the day before, taken from the overflow court room set up to facilitate the large numbers among the general public wishing to attend the proceedings.

Ms Justice Burns used no uncertain terms about whoever had taken a video of court proceedings. “They should be aware they’ve committed a criminal offence,” she said. “There may well be a criminal investigation into this matter. It’s not to happen [again].” 

Later on, Gerry Hutch’s defence counsel Brendan Grehan SC would also outline what constitutes a crime as he continued his lengthy cross-examination of Mr Dowdall. The topic of conversation was Pearse McAuley, the former IRA member who was convicted of the manslaughter of Detective Garda Jerry McCabe.

When Mr McAuley was in prison, Mr Dowdall visited him 14 times according to logs Mr Grehan put to him. Mr Dowdall told the court he visited him two to three times.

When Pearse McAuley was in prison, former Sinn Féin councillor Jonathan Dowdall (pictured) visited him 14 times according to logs Mr Grehan put to him. Mr Dowdall told the court he visited him two to three times. File picture.

“It’s a crime to lie on oath,” he told Mr Dowdall. “It’s a crime to say you weren’t friendly with him. A crime to say you only visited two to three times when you know full well it wasn’t the truth.” Mr Dowdall replied that “a lot has happened in eight years” and he couldn’t remember every time he visited somebody.

Mr Grehan teased out at great length with Mr Dowdall what his links to republicans were. He probed Mr Dowdall on why he was asked to reach out to republicans to try and broker a peace with the Kinahans pre-Regency. He was asked how he had such dissident contacts, and what he did to reach out.

Mr Dowdall was also quizzed about why he decided to speak to the gardaí about information he had on the Regency. Facing a murder charge himself over the killing of David Byrne in that hotel, he repeatedly denied he spoke to the gardaí to get the charge against him dropped.

He said he did it because he had no involvement in the murder, and that his father being asked to book a room by Patsy Hutch, the Monk's brother, in the Regency the night before, made them look culpable in the murder.

“A room is used you know nothing about to set you up in a murder you had nothing to do with,” he said. “I wanted to speak to the guards. I was always going to speak to the guards.” 

Tension

Those in the public gallery who had queued up to attend were bearing witness to a tense, fraught and difficult cross-examination.

On one of his alleged visits up North to meet republicans in Derry, Mr Dowdall was asked if he could recall travelling to Derry at any time in 2016. He said he couldn’t recall. Mr Grehan put it to him that was a “cop out of an answer”.

“I’m answering the difficult questions the best way I can,” Mr Dowdall answered. “I didn’t have to be here.” 

Mr Grehan shot back: “You’re here because you got your murder charge dropped.” Mr Gillane intervened: “That’s unfair, it’s not even a question.” And on it went.

Brendan Grehan SC (pictured), counsel for Gerry Hutch, teased out at great length with Mr Dowdall what his links to republicans were. Picture: Collins Courts

It was coming close to 4pm, the traditional time that court has wound down for the day. But Mr Dowdall had a number of points he wanted to make.

The first was about Sinn Féin. He wanted to make it clear that there were no provos involved, both in the Regency itself and his trips up North, and he wasn't a member of any dissident group. But there was more.

“I’m not involved in Sinn Féin,” he said. “I made a comment about Mary Lou [on the tapes] which was very unfair on a personal level. This is being used for what I did to drag down a political party.” 

On a number of occasions, Mr Grehan put it to Mr Dowdall that Patsy Hutch was like an uncle to him, a father figure. "I should’ve minded my own business and never got involved in anything like that," he said. "I trusted Patsy.

I don’t care if I’m killed. Nobody will touch my children. If I’ve to come in and give evidence against Patsy I’ll do it.

“I’m not a rat. If I’m required for anything to do in court, I’ll be here... I’m sorry for what happened to David Byrne and that family. But I wasn’t involved in that murder.” 

Another day of cross-examination lies ahead for Jonathan Dowdall on Thursday.