Hutch: ‘Cops like headless chickens’
In a recording heard by the court, murder accused Gerard ‘The Monk’ Hutch tells ex-Sinn Féin councillor Jonathan Dowdall that Daniel Kinahan looked ‘in a fuckin’ heap’ from photographs he had seen in a newspaper after the Regency Hotel attack. Photo: Gareth Chaney Collins
The Special Criminal Court has heard a recording of murder accused Gerard 'The Monk' Hutch tell ex-Sinn Féin councillor Jonathan Dowdall that Daniel Kinahan looked "in a fuckin heap" from photographs he had seen in a newspaper after the Regency Hotel attack.
The trial of Mr Hutch has heard that the two men, in conversations captured by a garda bugging device as they allegedly travelled to the North to meet with republicans, also discussed many topics including politics and celebrities.
Dowdall talked about how Sinn Féin would be "stupid" not to go into coalition and that they "can't sit back and throw their toys out of the pram". Dowdall also says that Eoin O Broin is "very good", that "his bird is ur wan Lynn Boylan" and that "he was the one that made a stand".
Mr Hutch was also recorded as saying he liked the singer Imelda May. "She's mad as a bleedin' brush," Dowdall had replied.
The three judges of the court also listened to a recording of Mr Hutch telling Dowdall that the "cops are going around like headless chickens" and that "loads of fuck ups have after been made" in the aftermath of the murder of Kinahan Cartel member David Byrne, 33, during a boxing weigh-in at the hotel.
Mr Hutch was heard telling Dowdall that "these three yokes we're throwin them up to them either way", in what the prosecution has said is a reference to giving the three assault rifles used in the Regency Hotel attack to republicans in the north.
Mr Hutch can also be heard saying: "There's a present them three yokes" and that he wanted "to throw them up there to them as a present". The accused also said he had to "push him" to get "them outta the village".
The trial has heard it was outlined in a warrant that gardaí believed a Ford Transit van was used to transport the Regency assailants to and from the hotel, that this van was stored at a car park at Buckingham Village in Dublin's north inner city prior to the murder and that the keys for the Ford Transit van were left with a woman for collection.
Mr Hutch was also recorded as saying: "Twelve months' time, there's two RUC men dead there and them things are ballistically traced". Dowdall replies: "They're gonna blame them on the Regency". Mr Hutch says that "any smart copper would be saying it's a joint yoke". Dowdall says there is "too much leading back up there".
The non-jury court also heard Mr Hutch tell Dowdall that Daniel Kinahan "looks in a fuckin heap" from the photographs he had seen in the newspaper. Dowdall tells Mr Hutch that he [Mr Hutch] is "used to the pressure from the cops through the years". Mr Hutch says: "I'd be like that if some c*** came running in with an AK-47" and that if Kinahan wasn't in "an awful way ya'd say he's totally disturbed".
Dowdall said: "Either way, they're going to jail, Gerard" and that he saw this morning that the Spanish authorities were rushing their case through. Mr Hutch says that "the English are all over them a long time" and "what you read in the papers they're not far off".
The court also heard the two men discuss convicted IRA killer Pearse McAuley and Mr Hutch can be heard telling Dowdall that him and Pearse "go back a bit". Dowdall tells Mr Hutch that he [Mr Hutch] is "friends" with Pearse and says: "Pearse said all along if you ever needed" and "Pearse would ring them and all if you want Gerard".
In another clip, the court heard Dowdall talking about the components for a bomb including a detonator. Dowdall can be heard saying: "you can get a det", "the electrical pulse that goes into that makes a chemical reaction and that's what sets it off" and "the det that goes into the plastic, so ya still need my mechanism". Mr Hutch says "just a ball of bleedin putty", "where you get that coil" and "what about the rubber stuff".
Dowdall says: "It would attack part of the car's surface, it would take the whole bottom of the car out of it".
Later in the conversation, Dowdall says that the newspapers don't have a "fuckin clue about the Regency". Dowdall says: "I don't think the police know what is being portrayed in the paper but they're saying we know who the six people are". Mr Hutch then says "they don't know" and that "sure the fuckin six people don't even know" and that "no one fuckin knows". Mr Hutch said that "the people that were there themselves don't fuckin know" and that it was "all speculation" looking at "the snaps" apart from "the man and woman". He added: "The cops are going around like headless chickens" and that "loads of fuck ups have after been made".
The court heard Mr Hutch say in the recording that he was talking to 'Fish' and that "Fish probably wouldn't give a fuck if he was caught with these". Dowdall said personally he wouldn't go through 'Fish'.
Mr Hutch says he would be "too hot" even though he hasn't been stopped and searched in years and that he expects to be pulled and searched when he walks out of his house.
Mr Hutch said he had flown into Dublin Airport and there were two detectives there from the National Bureau of Criminal Investigation. The gardaí asked him to account for his movements and told him they had “boxes to tick here,” he said.
Dowdall also tells Mr Hutch about "Patsy's van - the 131 Ford van" and how gardaí forgot to take the key when they "raided" his "gaff" saying "this is how stupid they are". He also tells the accused that Patsy is "better off" saying that he is "always in and out of the village doing carpets".
The Special Criminal Court trial has already heard that a Ford key seen hanging on a rack in the home of Patrick Hutch Senior, the brother of murder accused Gerard Hutch, was not seized by gardaí in error during a first search of the house. Gardai failed to find the key during a second search two days later.
The court also heard Mr Hutch and Dowdall speaking about a "peaceful process" when they were approaching Lisburn town centre. Mr Hutch said he wanted to "see what these are willing to do" and Dowdall replied, "but how can you trust them?"
Dowdall went on to say "I know you bleedin' trust me," and warned Mr Hutch about getting complacent or relaxed following a peace deal and added it could be "game over for your whole family."
Mr Hutch replied: "I know, ya have to be careful of these c****, their capabilities."
Dowdall said there's "too many of them" and that "them Kinahans are a big fucking army." Mr Hutch referred to the murder of his brother Eddie "Neddy" Hutch a month before, saying: "The c**** who done Neddy have to fucking go." He referred to them as "just fucking hitmen" and added that the "shooting has to stop" and that the IRA "would have to be at the meet".
Dowdall said, "they're c****, they'd give up their ma, they would." He said it "can't go on like this... ya can't live our lives like this."
Mr Hutch then mentioned that "Clinchy", an actor in Love/Hate had been "put in custody" prompting a conversation about celebrities including singers Adele and Imelda May, who Mr Hutch said he liked. "She's mad as a bleedin' brush," said Dowdall.
Referring to 'Bomber Kavanagh', Dowdall said that he was getting "lashed out of it" in the newspaper to which Mr Hutch says "see them all with the bleedin sunglasses" and called it "embarrassing". Dowdall says: "people that aren't gangsters"
Dowdall also says to the accused: "It's wrong looking at all the Union Jacks in Ireland Gerard, isn't it?". Mr Hutch says "yeah".
The pair are heard laughing at one point where Mr Hutch says: "We're in Lisburn, make sure we're not in Ashbourne".
Mr Hutch also said at one stage "the likes of these Kinahan c****".
Dowdall tells Mr Hutch that the republicans should have the "height of respect for what you're offering" and that they'd be very "fuckin stupid".
They are heard discussing politics and Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael. Dowdall says that Sinn Féin "are nearly big enough" and Dowdall talks about how Sinn Féin would be "stupid" not to go into coalition and that they "can't sit back and throw their toys out of the pram". Dowdall says that Sinn Féin politician Eoin O'Broin is "very good", that "his bird is ur wan Lynn Boylan" and that "he was the one that made a stand".
Mr Hutch said "you have to go with what's in the best interests of the country, not what's in the interest of your party". Dowdall says "it's easy for Sinn Féin to sit back like Labour and say that's wrong".
At the non-jury court on Tuesday, the prosecution played the beginning of an audio recording of a conversation between Mr Hutch and Dowdall while they were allegedly travelling north to a meeting in Strabane in Co. Tyrone around 2.23pm on March 7, 2016, in Dowdall's Toyota Land Cruiser jeep, that had been bugged by garda detectives.
Transcripts of the recordings, which are are being relied on by the prosecution, are being displayed on several screens in the courtroom and have been described as "part of the core" of State's case in the trial of Mr Hutch, 59, last of The Paddocks, Clontarf, Dublin 3, who denies the murder of Kinahan Cartel member David Byrn, 33, during a boxing weigh-in at the Regency Hotel on February 5, 2016.
On Tuesday morning, Garda Michelle Purcell agreed with Sean Gillane, prosecuting, that 'GH' in the transcript referred to the accused Gerard Hutch and 'JD' referred to Jonathan Dowdall, subject to this being established in evidence.
Last week, the three judges ruled that they would listen to the 10 hours of conversations between Mr Hutch and Dowdall that were captured by gardaí, despite having heard that Dowdall's bugged jeep had been outside of the State during the majority of the recordings.
Mr Hutch’s defence lawyer Brendan Grehan has submitted that their "core argument" would be that gardaí were aware that Dowdall's jeep was outside the jurisdiction for eight of the ten hours of those recordings from March 7, 2016, and that the evidence harvested from that "illicit fruit" should be excluded from the trial.
The non-jury court will hear the 10 hours of audio recording which begin at 2.20pm on Monday, March 7, 2016, leading into the early hours of Tuesday, March 8. After this the court will hear full legal argument from counsel on both sides as part of a 'voir dire' - a 'trial within a trial' - before the three judges rule on the admissibility of its contents having regard to the extraterritoriality issue.
Jonathan Dowdall (44) - a married father of four with an address at Navan Road, Cabra, Dublin 7 - was due to stand trial for Mr Byrne's murder alongside Gerard Hutch but pleaded guilty in advance of the trial to a lesser charge of facilitating the Hutch gang by making a hotel room available ahead of the murder.
The former Dublin councillor is currently being assessed for the Witness Protection Program after agreeing to testify against former co-accused Gerard Hutch, who is charged with Mr Byrne's murder.
The trial continues tomorrow before Ms Justice Tara Burns sitting with Judge Sarah Berkeley and Judge Grainne Malone.
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