Harrowing voices finally heard from the darkest depths of Irish sporting history

Mark Horgan, one of the Second Captains team and the host and co-producer of 10-part podcast series ‘Where is George Gibney?’ ‘The manipulation of young swimmers and young sportspeople on the cusp of making breakthroughs in their sport is a very real thing,’ says Horgan. ‘And it needs to be acknowledged on a wider scale.’

THERE are a number of moments in the first episode of the Where is George Gibney? podcast that might stop the listener in their tracks or leave them gasping, open-mouthed at what they’re hearing.

A Second Captains production for BBC Sounds, regular listeners of that show might be taken aback to hear a clip of co-hosts Ken Early and Eoin McDevitt, as the former recounts being trained as a youngster by Gibney, who was a director of swimming at the Irish Amateur Swimming Association.

Early: “He was a strange kind of guy, he was one of these quite calm-seeming people.”

McDevitt: “Did he exude this kind of power or authority?”

Early: “Well he did, but a lot of it is by reputation... You already know this is George Gibney, he’s the top coach, he coaches the national team, he’s the top man.”

Another disturbing moment comes as Gary O’Toole, one of this country’s greatest swimmers, is recorded listening back for the first time to old interviews of himself from the 1970s. The innocence in that young voice is clear; the sense of ensuing dread standing literally beside him in the form of his swimming coach.

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But perhaps the moment that hits hardest is hearing from Chalkie White, another acclaimed swimmer who’s the youngest ever winner of the Liffey Swim, taking home the honours in 1966 at age 11. His is a seminal role in this story: on a flight to the World Championships in Sydney in 1990, White told O’Toole he had been abused by Gibney and asked if he’d ever suffered anything similar.

Fighting back tears, Chalkie says on the podcast: “I was afraid I wouldn’t get through it. I was on a point where I needed to make sure that I
survived, that was my first thing. 

I didn’t want anything to happen to anybody else. But I’m not going to take responsibility for doing something to save other people, that was not my ulterior motive; my ulterior motive was just to look after me.

George Gibney is a name that crops up in the media every few years, but he was everywhere in the 1980s, the face behind the
successes of Ireland’s young swimmers.

“The archive of Gibney is just so vast, it is insane how many television appearances he made and how eager he was to be on the radio,” says Mark Horgan, one of the Second Captains team and the host and co-producer of this 10-part podcast series.

George Gibney during his time as director of swimming at the Irish Amateur Swimming Association: PIcture: Inpho/Billy Stickland

In 1993 that all ended when Gibney was charged with 27 counts of indecent assault. An appeal to the Supreme Court saw a judicial review granted due to the amount of time that had passed since the alleged offences took place. The High Court subsequently granted an order prohibiting charges proceeding against Gibney.

Horgan is quick to credit journalists such as Justine McCarthy and Johnny Watterson for their work on Gibney throughout the intervening years. So what made him want to do this series? What’s different now? 

Comparing the case to the Larry Nasser abuse in US gymnastics and Barry Bennell in English underage soccer, Horgan explains: “The difference this time is that it’s a worldwide story. And that it continues to have implications today. 

The abuse of power by people in positions of significance in sport has continued until today. It still continues. 

"So it’s not like it’s something that is a story that’s based in the ‘60s, ‘70s, or ‘80s. It’s not. The manipulation of young swimmers and young sportspeople on the cusp of making breakthroughs in their sport is a very real thing. And it needs to be acknowledged on a wider scale.”

The opening scene in the first episode, released last Thursday, finds Horgan following a car of a man known to his neighbours as ‘John’.

“That’s 100% George Gibney,” we hear an on-edge Horgan exclaim. It was an intentional opening scene. 

George Gibney never stood trial to face the charges laid against him. Instead, he vanished.

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“This isn’t about a confrontation. It’s about an investigation, and it’s about understanding what [Gibney] does today. It’s understanding who he works with. It’s trying to understand the connections that he has today. It’s to understand who his neighbours are, what they know, what person is he purporting to be to the world now? All those elements are crucial and they’re hugely in the public interest.”

And it’s about putting the stories of O’Toole, White, and fellow survivors front and centre. Horgan explains that he only sat down with these acclaimed swimmers after the series was commissioned because they’d seen and done projects before where little has come of them. Though he’s part of a big team including co-producers Ciarán Cassidy and his sister Maria Horgan, and researcher/fact-checker Killian Down, Horgan was the only person in the room when he was playing those taped interviews for O’Toole.

“Gary was the meal ticket [for Gibney]. Gary was his pride and joy as a swimmer. He was the European silver medallist, he was a multi-Olympian, he was just a phenomenon. 

The complexity of that relationship, and then to be able to hear the voices of Gary as a child and then to actually bring that footage to Gary, which he hasn’t seen before, or he might have seen back in the 70s and 80s, and to play it for him in his house, was an amazing experience and very real and I think that’s important with what we’ve done in the podcast,- it’s very real.

Horgan is similarly in awe of Chalkie White.

“I find his bravery incredible. And I also think that, when you think about it, even if Chalkie was talking about how, when he made the decision to speak to Gary on the plane that day, that he was doing it for himself, his actions there had, I think, profound implications for lots of people and helped lots of people and I hope him speaking now will also help lots of people. But even if Chalkie doesn’t accept a lot of praise for what he did, he should, because he was huge in getting this story, and the truth about Gibney, out there, even if he didn’t get brought to trial in the end.”

Eight of the 10 episodes are at various stages of completion, and Horgan says they’re leaving the final two episodes open now as they appeal for more information and ask if there are more people who want to come forward to talk with them. “Gibney spent time in Marian College in Dublin, in Glenalbyn in Dublin, obviously in Trojan’s and the Guinness swimming pool in the ’60s. But also he spent time in Waterford, in the swimming pool in Waterford Crystal. There might be people who are reading who will recognize this man from their time or who might have information they want to share with us.”

If anybody has information they want to share confidentially with the producers, email [e-mail]

Where Is George Gibney? is available now on BBC Sounds.

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