Gearóid Hegarty Interview: Even for the masters, every day is a school day
PERFECT TEN: Gearóid Hegarty after the All-Ireland win over Kilkenny, the Treaty's fourth title in five seasons. Pic: Eóin Noonan, Sportsfile
BEFORE Gearóid Hegarty broke up for Christmas at Desmond College in Newcastle West, he asked his students to tear out a page and write down two things they liked about his class and maybe one thing they thought could be improved. Anonymously, so it’s honest.
Honest appraisal is something he doesn’t lack under the watch of John Kiely and it’s something he’s grown to value.
“If you’re not going well, John will tell you straight out. He doesn’t beat around the bush.
“Feedback is a massive thing. I’m big into getting feedback on my own performance from the backroom team and writing a few things down. In a tactical sense from Paul (Kinnerk), in the video analysis off Seanie O’Donnell, or Caroline (Currid) on sports performance. It links in with what I'm doing in the classroom, getting feedback from the students on how to make the lessons better.
“It’s not something I’d have done a few years ago, but you get more comfortable in yourself.”
It’s instinct now, to fear standing still.
“That’s what I love about teaching. You walk into the same school every day, the same building, but every day is a different day. It’s fresh, and I hate staleness in any walk of life.
“Teaching gets a bad rep in terms of GAA players going teaching and it really irritates me. If you get into teaching for the holidays you will not last. You just will not last. I remember in college they used to say there are as many GAA players trying to get out of teaching as get into teaching. If you are going in every day Monday to Friday and just trying to get to June, what a miserable way to live.”
Gearóid is in the Woodlands House Hotel in Adare to talk a little about education, but he’ll talk about anything you want. He’s involved with Examcraft, an assessment company, which also produces Junior Cycle revision books and recently launched Examcraft Formative, an online platform for formative assessment in schools.
Dan Sheedy, who sources talent for Examcraft, says he approached Hegarty to be a ‘brand ambassador’, but ended up hiring him to do some real work. He is currently editing a Business Studies book and preparing a transition year well-being programme.
“Anything that makes life easier in the classroom. I’m only going to be a hurler for a few more years but I’ll be a teacher for a lot more and I just liked what Dan was doing.”
‘All-in’ is a description Dan uses for Hegarty, which seems to fit well. There’s an energy about him and a zest for the next thing which should worry anybody hoping the Limerick hurlers might soon finish up this spree of winning.
It’s a theme in a lot of the things we talk about, his determination to wring the last drops out. Even now, he’s packing his weekends with socialising. He’s not long back from New York where he watched the Jets. Before hurling takes over completely again.
“Nobody’s perfect and I’m not necessarily looking for perfection but you can always get better. I’m always looking for improvement in my hurling life. This will only go on for another couple of years. It will be over eventually. Unfortunately. I'm loving it at the moment and you wish… but…
“I’m in a WhatsApp group with a couple of friends and it’s called ‘Time waits for no man’ and it absolutely does not.”
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He has been stung a few times for his frankness. When he said, earlier this year, that “it's either kill or be killed out there” in the heat of inter-county hurling, he attracted headlines and tut-tuts for the loose language.
Now that narratives are being set for next year, is there anything he has to avoid saying? Would Kiely spell out the messages?
“They’d never tell us what to say or anything like that. They do trust us, in fairness, to say the right things, or whatever. But we are on the road now a good few years, we know the craic at this stage.”
By knowing the craic, he means shutting up shop. Though it just doesn’t come naturally to him.
“I find it funny really. I’m big into NBA and American football, and the way those fellas talk to the media, anything goes. They can say whatever they want. I find it crazy. It’s so different to our culture of the GAA where literally you can’t say anything.”
He sees a direct link between the appetite for clickbait headlines and the reluctance to provide any line at all.
“I don’t think it was always that way. But nowadays, nobody says anything anymore. The interviews before games with the managers, it’s like a conference on how to talk without saying anything. It’s gone a bit mad. Nobody wants to give anything away. We don’t reveal too much either. We probably do the bare minimum, but it’s just the norm these days.”
He listens to sports podcasts but mainly on American sports or Liverpool. Not GAA. Though he has heard enough about Dalo’s pod and TJ Ryan’s contributions to recall TJ was the exact same in a dressing room. Funny, but well able to make his point.
“Similar. Very easygoing. Like any manager, he can turn it on when he needs to. You don’t achieve what TJ has achieved by being best friends either. He owes Limerick hurling nothing. But he’s such an easygoing fella. I hadn’t met him properly for a while, maybe since 2016, but then I meet him the other week and it’s like you’re seeing him every week.”
Hurling punditry hasn’t been unanimously kind to Hegarty. Dónal Óg Cusack went in strong this year, after his red card against Galway in the league.
He can’t recall what exactly was said, which suggests he didn’t lose sleep over it, but it was along the lines of ‘he had that one coming’.
“You know what, it didn’t upset me at all. He is entitled to his opinion. He can say whatever he wants. It honestly didn’t. I’d nearly prefer someone to be honest, rather than say what you want to hear.
“It didn't bother me, but it may have bothered my family. They would take it worse, things like that. I’ve been called a lot of good and bad things over the last few years so it just goes with the territory.”
He gets plenty of unfiltered feedback on Monday mornings too, such as the one after his second red card of the year — that unfortunate one against Clare in the championship.
“Before I’d even got into my first class, around twenty to 9, I remember one of the second years was straight up, ‘what were you up to at the weekend, sir, why do you get into so much trouble?’.
“And I just burst out laughing. He just said exactly what was on his mind. No sugar-coating it. And you just have to see the funny side on a Monday. And you learn from it or whatever.”
After the flashpoint with Galway, Caroline Currid made one of her more visible contributions to the Limerick cause in immediately sitting beside him in the stand. What did she say?
“Caroline is like a motherly figure to us all. She’s probably great for the backroom staff and John in looking after us all. She knew at the time I was very disappointed. Everything happened so quick and before you know it you’re sent off, you’re sitting on the bench. Crap. What am I after doing? I didn’t actually know. It’s nearly like a moment of madness. She was just trying to comfort me and say that you’ll learn from this. It wasn’t not to worry about it, but just to watch the rest of the game and not to be panicking. In a comforting way rather than giving out to me. So she’s brilliant in those situations.
“I’d like to say that I did learn from it. I know there was another one in the summer, but I thought I was a bit hard done by there, to say the least.”
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The theory around Hegarty is that he was a big, raw, rangy footballer who the Limerick production line repackaged into something useful. Like they bolted wrists onto him. He’s not entirely on board with that one.
“Everyone used say, my hurling was so raw and I’m not much of a hurler. It used to annoy the life out of me. I used to think, I only started playing football two years ago, I was always a hurler. I had lost a bit of the touch, but I knew it would come back.”
But he accepts too that he hadn’t shown enough at 20 to be near TJ’s Limerick senior hurling panel.
'Nepo Baby' is a phrase du jour, thanks to a recent article pointing out the helping hands celebrity offspring enjoy thanks to their parentage.
‘An ounce of breeding’ is a more popular expression in Limerick given the talent they’ve discovered splashing in the gene pool. Five of the current team have fathers who played for the county.
Gearóid has the self-awareness to reach for the idea himself.
“You need a bit of luck along the way too. And I was probably lucky that my father had hurled for Limerick for so long. That probably gave me a leg up when I needed it, at times.”
Did pressure come with the nametag?
“Maybe a little bit. On minor panels. Maybe a little bit in school. A lot of the teachers would have known me as Ger’s son.”
But pressure was never boiled at home, something he is keen to stress, considering the load often heaped on young people, in sport and beyond.
“Never. Absolutely not. He used always say, ‘all you can do is your best’. He is the eternal optimist. Whenever we weren’t going too well, back in the day, his phrase was ‘that’s the best thing that ever happened ye’.
“Whether you won by 10 points or lost by 10 points it was ‘that’s the best thing that ever happened ye’. Especially the losses. ‘Ye learned a lot today’.”
Ger senior is on the record as saying he didn’t think his son would make it as a hurler. But it’s not what Gearóid was hearing at home.
“He definitely always believed in me. Even when nobody else did. Even when I didn’t believe in myself. He may not have believed I was capable of being hurler of the year, or whatever, but he believed I was capable of hurling for Limerick.
“He would have seen all the training I used do, down in the field in St Patrick’s. He knew a thing or two, playing for so long. And he probably saw a lot of motivation in me, to get to where I needed to get to.
“I was actually quite a decent hurler in school but I didn’t have the strength and conditioning needed or the speed or fitness. Maybe I didn’t have the mentality to be in the best possible shape. And then it kind of went the other way when I got on the football team. I stopped hurling for so long and developed strength and conditioning-wise, and lost a bit of the hurling.
“I say it to the young lads in the school, sporting-wise and academically, you have to go your own way, and figure it out yourself as you go along. And everyone progresses at different speeds.
“You need luck, and you need to stick at it. I’m a big believer that if you are willing to do whatever it takes, you will get there.
“There’s 168 hours in the week. There's a lot of people who say they want to do this and that then sit down in the evenings on the couch and procrastinate. You meet these fellas on a night out. A fella you never met before and he'll tell you he could have done this or that.”
All the same, he accepts there are uncontrollables. Because he has his sliding doors moment. You can watch it back on YouTube. He’s wing back on the Limerick U21s and he’s trailing helplessly behind John McGrath who’s about to complete a stirring Tipp comeback in the first round of the 2015 Munster Championship. McGrath’s finish is on target, as you’d expect, but at an uncommonly savable height given his expertise in those positions. And Dave McCarthy in goal obliges.
“We always talk about it. If Tipp had beaten us that day, what would have happened? So many of us went on to play senior and have been prominent the last couple of years.
“I was finished 21s. If we were beaten in the first round, I’m definitely not called onto the senior panel in ‘16. Sliding doors. They are funny.”
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Can you enjoy this as it rolls? Or are you always looking ahead?
The last few years have been mad, but I don’t necessarily look back too often. We play a game on a Sunday, I’ll reflect on it the next day, and then I’ll move on.
Have you watched back this year’s final much? Have you the goal on a loop on your phone?
I’ve watched it a handful of times. In the home place, for about three weeks after, it was on repeat. Over and over. I grew sick of it. They didn’t watch anything else, the mother and father. But I’m not big into looking back. I’m looking ahead. What’s next?
Could you remember every score you got now? Would you find yourself replaying them in your head?
Ah I would. From time to time, of course you would. There’s something so special about Croke Park, it is hard to describe in words. Even before I played up there I thought it was the most incredible place. Tens of thousands leaving a county to go up to Dublin to watch 15 or 20 young fellas, normal fellas, who all have jobs, playing this sport we have, the greatest sport in the world. It’s just unreal.
It was incredible in 2018, the emotion there.
Yeah, that was the most emotional by a mile. My girlfriend’s uncle was getting married the week beforehand. He was 44 and he said to me ‘I’ve never seen Limerick win an All-Ireland and it kills me’. I was just laughing, ‘we’ll do our best to sort that next week’. That’s why the emotion of that day will never be matched. The people in the stand who hadn’t seen it, or thought they’d never see it again.
We hardly even begrudged ye in Tipp.
Yeah nobody did in 2018. Absolutely nobody. Everybody begrudges us now. But that’s the team you want to be. Because I remember growing up, Kilkenny were that team — 31 counties were going for the opposition. That's the team you want to be. The team everybody — I don’t know about hate — but the team nobody wants to win.
I don't think people hate ye…
Yeah, that’s a strong word. I don’t think that…
Getting sick of ye alright…
Yeah, because we’ve been so lucky in the last few years in what we’ve won.
The Man United thing.
Yeah, I grew up in the era of Alex Ferguson winning everything. Nobody wanted United to win anything. There’s always a reason why.
Do ye feed off that?
I don't think we do. I think you’re right. I don’t think people hate us, because in fairness, we do play a nice brand of hurling, I’d like to say. Obviously, it’s very physical but a lot of the games are high-scoring entertaining games. We never really reference it, or feed off things we can’t control.
There’s no need?
: There isn’t really. Even the All-Ireland, it’s the biggest circus ever, in terms of all the sideshows. But we’re so focused we don’t even see it. The music and so on, you don’t even hear it. We’re just in a bus, drive in under Croke Park, into the dressing room. You don’t see any of it.
That’s a tribute to the management really.
Exactly.
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You’re a big Liverpool man. Klopp and Kiely, any similarities?
Yeah, maybe. They always say Klopp is big into a meritocracy with the players. If you’re performing in training you’re getting a starting jersey and John has always said that over the years. John doesn’t beat around the bush. And I get that vibe off Klopp as well. He’s not afraid to express his feelings. Klopp is big into harnessing the power of the crowd as well in Anfield. And we’re blessed in Limerick with the support we have. The league will be starting end of January and there will be thousands in the Gaelic Grounds. We’re lucky that way. You have to use all these things to your advantage.
Would he be a hugger?
No, he’s not that kind of a manager. But you always know where you stand with him. You know if you’re not where you need to be. We had 40 on the panel a couple of years ago. When we won the league in 2019 I remember there were 40 jerseys handed out. And the number 40 jersey was very symbolic for us. Because we’re a unit, we’re 40 lads, it’s not 1 to 14 or 1 to 21. We are so strong on everyone being equal.
John trusts everyone. Even Ciano (Lynch) going down last year, the week before the All-Ireland final. Obviously it was a sickener, but it’s always next man up. He never panics if fellas get injured. Literally he came in at the end of a training session, said ‘shit luck, but that’s it’. One door closes for one fella, it opens for another fella, and that’s the way it has to be. Has to be that way. That’s how it all links together.
As a close observer of Liverpool, did you see any clues that there would be slippage this season? The kind of stuff you’d be wary of in your own camp?
I didn’t see it coming. But hindsight is foresight. The year they had last year, 10 minutes away from winning everything they could win. They couldn’t have played any more minutes. They didn’t get that massive break over the summer. And then, staleness. I’m always worried about staleness myself, in terms of keeping fresh, mentally fresh.
It’s nearly impossible to detect it before it happens. I still think there’s a long season yet. They could pick up a Champions League. I know of previous teams who were written off early in the season that came back and did the business…
(slow on the uptake): Including yourselves…
That’s what I’m on about.
There is a view, based on this year’s margins, that the gap is narrowing to the rest. That this Limerick hegemony (Hego-mony!) might be near an end. Inside the borders, they’re not being greedy. There’s talk of getting “one or two more” out of this group. Maybe three.
Gearóid knows the craic well enough not to leave anything for a dressing room door. But if they are to slip this year, foresight will come in the rearview mirror.
His work with Examcraft underlines the message Kiely and company will forever stress. Life with Limerick is always formative assessment. There will be big exams, but learning happens everyday. And constant feedback keeps standards from drifting.
“We’re lucky we have so many leaders. We have so many fellas who turn up to training and give their absolute all every night. And driving fellas around them. That's the way to guard against staleness.
“The management too have looked after us. We had such a long break last year. We’ve had a good break again. They’re big into making sure we come back fresh, that you enjoy your break while you're off. Forget about hurling, put the hurleys into the shed and chillax.
“Because when you’re back you’re back. And it’s full on. Five nights a week, the other two you can’t do anything because you need to rest, to recover, and let the body relax.
“When you are doing it you give it 110% and when they give you a break I’ve learned to take it.
“As our coach Joe O’Connor always said, ‘you can’t fully switch on if you never fully switch off’.”
He’ll be all-in again.
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