When Paul Murphy met Paul Murphy

It was backstage at the All Stars when Paul Murphy met Paul Murphy.

Dopplegangers they ain’t, but they’ve more in common than names. After All-Ireland winning campaigns, they met on neutral ground in Cork to discuss 2014, the benefits of behind-closed-doors training, Twitter and next season

John Fogarty: Let’s get the novelty out of the way. When would you have first noticed one another?

Kilkenny: “I copped it earlier on. It was during the league. The night we played the Walsh Cup final against Dublin, Kerry played Dublin. We all went into the Cusack/Canal corner after it and Paul was playing corner-back. Your name was in the programme that night of course as well and there was a bit of a sneer among the lads about it.”

Kerry: “I would have been well aware of you for a couple of years! There was a bit of a novelty factor during the year.”

JF: Looking back on it from a Kilkenny perspective, is 2014 the sweetest of your three All-Irelands?

Kilkenny: “It is. The first one you always say is because you’re made it over the line and actually have one. This year, there were so many matches. It seems like years ago that the first two Galway matches were played. The Limerick match was massively hard and there was little or nothing in it in the end. Then to go to another replay with Tipperary? Yeah, it was definitely the sweetest.

JF: Marc Ó Sé and Aidan O’Mahony would say the same about Kerry’s this year. The fact that nobody expected to do it apart from yourselves.

Kerry: “I’m just feeding off the other lads a bit. It’s my first one so it’s huge for me and we weren’t given a chance but that was probably as a result of the performances in the league, especially the Cork game. That has been referenced a lot since the final as a turning point. It was probably the work we put in after that made it for us. It was good in a way that there were no illusions for us going into that big gap between league and Championship. We just had to work and we did work. It was sweet having come from the point we were to win it.”

JF: There were some scares for both counties like the drawn Galway game for Kilkenny where you looked home and hosed.

Kilkenny: “It was really disappointing to be that far ahead and let them back into it. After a 10-point lead, it felt like we were putting totally unnecessary work on ourselves . We had to go and play again and we thought we had handed Galway massive momentum. It was a big stumbling point but when we got through it, we had the momentum going into the Dublin game. It probably stood to us for the rest of the year because we didn’t let anybody come back at us thereafter. Tipp did a bit in the first final match but it was always in the back of our minds that in the last 10 minutes we wouldn’t let it slip again. The Limerick game, it was probably the sorest I’ve ever come off a hurling field because of the knocks. It had been said we were passed our sell-by date. After that, we knew we could win it. That didn’t mean we were going to. As Tipp showed in the first match, they nearly blew us off the pitch.”

JF: The drawn final with Tipp — just how crippling would it have been had John O’Dwyer’s free gone over? Not just because it would have lost you an All-Ireland but the nature of the free?

Kilkenny: “I saw Kieran Bergin saying it in the paper one of the days that he understood why Brian Cody felt aggrieved over it because at that stage in the final you’ve put everything into it and the whole year is hanging on it. You’d rather be beat by 10 points than one point you’d have a grievance with. I understand what Brian was saying that time. It was a great thing Kieran Bergin said. I’ve great respect for him for that. I remember standing on the 21 yard line for the free and John O’Dwyer had been hitting them so well all year. I was saying to myself, ‘This is it — it will go over’. But I was right in line with it at the time so I knew it was wide. You just knew it didn’t look right so I didn’t have to go to Hawk-Eye. It was probably the greatest thing that could have happened for the match because if both sides can now say it was a brilliant match. Whereas if one team lost you’d always have people saying ‘Ah, we lost. We didn’t play well’.

JF: Shane Enright’s escape in Limerick was probably Kerry’s equivalent of a let-off but Kerry deserved the win. For Kerry, it was the true turning point?

Kerry: “It was when the rest of the country sat up and took notice. Maybe the Cork game and how we beat them raised a few eyebrows but then we stuttered a bit against Galway and in the drawn game with Mayo. From when we started the Championship, I fancied us because on any one day we could take a team. If you add up all of those games you can win an All-Ireland. It was a huge occasion, a bit of novelty about it and a big crowd on the pitch afterwards. Along with the Cork league game, they were the turning points in our year.”

JF: People will say you played Donegal at their own game. Would you agree?

Kerry: “To use that Johnny Giles term: ‘each game on its merits’. But you have to. You have to give the opposition enough respect and set yourselves up to do your own game justice but to cope with their game-plan. In terms of people saying we ‘out-Donegaled’ Donegal, I don’t know about it. We held our two half-backs in position. Up front, we probably weren’t as efficient as we would have liked to be. We tried to shoot from outside and missed a lot. We looked into what they had been doing because they had been very successful and we adapted our game-plan to suit ourselves.”

JF: Brian Cody has shown his own adaptation skills for All-Ireland final replays, this year being no different. For a county and team built on tradition, he’s never been afraid to change things up.

Kilkenny: “Brian would always say to us in every training session that nobody owns a jersey and there’s no safety net. Walter Walsh in 2012, he was in training with us, but it was completely from left field that he burst onto the team. It’s interesting that in the last three final replays, the man of the match weren’t even playing in the first matches — Walter Walsh, Shane O’Donnell and Kieran Joyce. We weren’t surprised because we could see what was going on in training. We had a massive amount of players playing unbelievably well and they probably didn’t get a look-in this year. That wasn’t seen from the outside. We didn’t expect three changes but it wasn’t a shock to us that Brian was going to change the team because he always does it. It’s one of the things that keep us going: you can get dropped at any time. There’s no loyalty and it’s probably the best environment to be in. If a player felt safe he could drop his standards.”

JF: Both Kilkenny and Kerry adopt a behind-closed-doors training policy. How much did it help ye, starting with you Kilkenny, Paul?

Kilkenny: “It’s a different ball game now. With social media anyone can basically be a reporter in the stands, take a picture, tweet it and that’s it. In 2006/2007, that wasn’t the case. It wasn’t as widespread but what I like about behind closed doors is — and it’s nothing against journalists or fans — the fact you can go in there and nobody’s looking at or hearing you. Brian can talk at the top of his voice and say what he wants. Backs and forwards can say what they want and they can go as hard as they want. You don’t feel insecure that lads are watching you. It can be a bit of a circus with people constantly asking for autographs and stuff. That’s a great part of what we do but there’s a time and place. The fans respected the fact we want to work hard behind closed doors and, look, as long as we get results on the day that’s what they want. I did enjoy it because you could really throw off the shackles.”

JF: The man in the tree in Killarney trying to look in at Kerry training was one of the more amusing GAA stories this year.

Kerry: “Yeah, it was kind of ironic that the one night we know of somebody trying to watch us the Gooch did a bit of training. This year was my first full year and it seems a bit ridiculous that you would have people coming in. I’d been called in for a session here and there over the last couple of years and you wouldn’t have been aware of it some of the time but then somebody might score a point and then there’s a round of applause! You’re thinking, ‘That’s a bit ridiculous’. As Paul said there, you can do what you want. There’s no holding back. If there’s a bit of clipping or a pucking match or whatever, it could be blown up to be something that it isn’t. From a tactical point of view, if you have a Championship match on a Sunday and you’re training on a Tuesday or Wednesday and trying out a new tactic it’s just ridiculous to think anybody could be there watching it. James (O’Donoghue) didn’t train for parts of the year, which was fine because he was monitoring his (shoulder) injury. But if that goes out that James isn’t training, it’ll get to the media, everybody is talking about it and suddenly it’s a big event, when it wasn’t.”

Kilkenny: “Coming up to the match, you’re trying to fine-tune your tactics and if you were to open up your doors, what’s to stop the Donegal lads with a video camera reporting back that Paul Murphy is going sweeping here and Kieran Donaghy is staying at the edge of the box. You’re completely giving the edge to the other team.”

JF: You don’t mind the rumour mill that’s a by-product of behind-closed-doors training?

Kilkenny: “It’s entertaining more than anything because you hear some absolutely crazy rumours. You wonder how they start but when you know in your camp that it didn’t come from your group it kind of builds the bond stronger. It’s when the true story gets out... so what if a player had a tiff with another player in training. It was something small, he threw a dig, so what? If the specifics of that get out, then you think somebody inside is maybe letting out too much. Often, it’s all completely wrong. People just want something in the run-up to a match. If there’s nothing going, something will come out another way.”

JF: Walking down a street in Killarney — do you hear it, Paul?

Kerry: “Yeah, I get a bit of it. I learned this year you just have to develop stock answers. At the same time, Kerry people have such passion for the game. You also have to appreciate their interest. As Paul said there, you can get a bit of a bond from it that people don’t know what’s going on and we know what we’re doing is right.”

JF: Another great story from this year was Eamonn Fitzmaurice’s personally handwritten letters to you the morning of the final. How motivating was yours?

Kerry: “It meant a good bit. It was a lovely touch. I was rooming with Aidan O’Mahony this year and obviously we didn’t know it was coming. We woke up that morning and there were two envelopes, one for each of us. There was nothing said about it before the game and among the players, they were personal letters. There was nothing groundbreaking in them but it was just a personal message. It drove us on that little bit, I think. He was organising a bit of an enquiry as to how news of it got out, but it’s out now. It was one of several examples of the attention to detail he brings to it.”

JF: Paul, I could never see Brian Cody, with the greatest of respect to him, doing something similar. It just goes to show winning managers can be different.

Kilkenny: “The one thing Brian and Eamonn would have is honesty. Brian mightn’t necessarily put something underneath our door the day of a match but you know where you stand with him at all times. Like I said, you mightn’t feel there’s a safety net there, but because of it you know where he and you lie. A lot of people would see Brian as the man on the sideline with the arms crossed and fairly stern-looking, but Brian has his moments where he’d have a word with in the dressing room after a match or after a training or give you a quick call. He certainly does have them but it’s like Paul says: nothing is really said about them. You just carry on. If people outside of it want to exaggerate how Brian is, that’s fair enough, that’s their own business. Brian manages very well and he likes to man-manage because he could be dealing with one fella who is an accountant or another fella who has a farm and three kids. He knows how to deal with each man.”

JF: Both teams were written off either after last year or at some stage this year. It amuses the media sometimes how many times a county can claim nobody gave them a chance. How do you see it?

Kilkenny: “It’s part of motivation. If you’re not the favourites you could take it that you’re nearly being written off. There are pockets where every team will be written off. I don’t think it’s wrong for a team to focus on them pockets. There might be an article here or an article there or a word in the ear walking down the high street. Lads do say it after matches but GAA players will look into every corner for motivation. There’s great enjoyment two minutes after winning a match and you’re on telly and you know the lads are watching and you’re saying ‘we were written off’ because you were in some pocket.”

JF: James O’Donoghue had questioned his right to wear the Kerry jersey this year because of the bad vibes in the county. It stirred him. Did you tap into that feeling?

Kerry: “You do whatever you can to get an angle. If you’ve something to fight for... I know you shouldn’t be. If you’re in a big Championship match you shouldn’t be relying on something like that but if you can get a small angle somewhere that will fire you up a little more, you will try and get it whether it’s being written off or something personal. I wouldn’t be drawing on it too much because if you do you’ll start believing it. Use it to the point of being helpful but not too much that it will consume you.”

JF: You both have girlfriends. How understanding do they have to be?

Kerry: “This time of the year, there are a few perks and a few trips but there’s no guarantee you’re going to get them. You probably get them if you win an All-Ireland or an All Star, so very few people get them. Girlfriends have to be understanding but so too do your family and friends because you’re constantly missing nights, making excuses or nipping away early. There’s a lot of commitment from inter-county players but their immediate circle as well. You have to make a lot of sacrifices.”

Kilkenny: “They’re in it as much as we are. Their friends are going off with their boyfriends for summer holidays and they’re investing as much into it as we are. They get as much into the matches if not more than us. They’re up there with the mother in the crowd and they’ve the same interests. It is tough on them so it’s great at this time of year to give something back. You’re cramming a lot into this time of year but then for a lot of the rest of the year we can’t do this or do that because of training or matches. It’s tough on them. It’s not just a normal relationship.”

JF: What did you both make of Stephen Hunt’s recent comments about GAA players. Was he misinterpreted or did his message ring loud and clear?

Kilkenny: “I heard him on radio after the article. I had great time for him when he was playing for Ireland and he didn’t get enough chances. If I was writing an article and I didn’t want to cause offence as he has stated, I would read through it and make sure I wasn’t. There was a bit of offence caused because he said an awful lot of lads wouldn’t be able for a professional life in sport. Now he make the point that a lot of them would have got a shot when they got over there but it didn’t come across that way in the paper. The reason we don’t get to rest is because we have to work and we have other deadlines to meet. Lads have families and that. We are well aware we should be resting more than we are but I just think it was a case where it was expected we weren’t going to say anything about it. I think GAA players are standing up for themselves a little bit more these days. It was like with Colm O’Rourke article. It would have been said before that GAA players wouldn’t stand up for themselves, they say nothing and just get on with it. But if there’s something to be said, then why not say it? If you were to ask a few of the lads here to make it over in England they would.”

Kerry: “As far as I know, he’s into the GAA so it was surprising from that point of view. I think there would be a lot of GAA players who would love to be professional. It was a bit unwise by Stephen Hunt but coming back to Paul’s point about players standing up for themselves: they have the platform on social media, where even five or six years ago they wouldn’t and if they wanted to have their say they’d have to go to the media and all of a sudden it escalates. You could be sucked into a war of words in the media with a guy when you just want to put your opinion across. You have to mind what you say on social media but it can serve a purpose.”

JF: You’re both obviously defenders. With the black card this year, the game has probably become harder for you in Kerry, Paul?

Kerry: “You can fully understand how it came in. You ask yourself a bit how the hurlers escaped (laughing)! A lot of the fouls are stupid fouls, cynical fouls. There were a few teething problems but you just have to get used to it. You have to get a bit cuter in that if you’re to commit one of those fouls, you do it in such a way that you find a loophole in it. If you need to pull a guy down, you don’t pull him down — you just hold onto him. It’s probably stacked against defenders but it’s probably better for the game as a spectacle. There’s no point in me or any defender mounting a campaign against the black card. That’s no good for me in a game. You just have to get on with it.”

Kilkenny: “The added dimension of the hurl in hurling has its problems. You can control your movements a lot better in football so the black card can be easier to police. But with the hurl, you could swing for a ball and you might catch somebody and could that be a black card? There are so many things that could be wrong. There would be more teething problems if the black card was to come into hurling. I wouldn’t have a problem with any referee because they are going as hard as they can to do a good job. But the game has gone so fast and players have gone so fit, that lads are driving into tackles so hard and the referee is trying to allow for that and the game to remain manly while not creating an environment where a lad could then break a leg or something stupid like that. Sometimes too much can be looked into something when a rule mightn’t be needed. The penalty is likely to be changed and in fairness the advantage has to be with the forward. I can understand why it (the interpretation) came in this year because of safety. It was getting dangerous.”

JF: Both of your counties have lost players in the last couple of months and maybe more. How do you embrace that? Is ‘coping’ the word?

Kilkenny: “Coping is probably the wrong word. In my first year, four or five lads retired and it was more daunting then, but as you go on you realise retirements will be part and parcel of it. There were a few ones we weren’t expecting but it wasn’t like they were 22 or 23. I’m looking forward to it really, stepping in and filling a gap especially with Tommy, JJ and Brian, a good few backs, going and (David) Herity as well. It’s a great challenge to think of the fact you’re going to be heading back to training and will have to pick up more of the slack. You realise how much work they were doing, motivating lads. That work will have to be given to somebody. It’s actually exciting to think you’ll have to step in there and there’ll be less protection. With JJ Delaney gone, you’ll never fill his boots but it’s great to think you or somebody else will have to fill that No 3 jersey.”

Kerry: “Eamonn would be saying to us that the jersey is only ever borrowed, like Paul said about Brian. Declan (O’Sullivan) would be a huge loss from the dressing room point of view. Everybody sees he’s a fantastic footballer, but I learned a huge amount just about the way he goes about training, matches everything. He sets huge standards for himself and when you see that you feel compelled to do the same for him almost. We’ll cope with it. A few players came in this year and a few players went out last year. You just have to bring more players on. The Gooch, Tomás Ó Sé, Paul Galvin... they all replaced somebody. It’s just a constant cycle. You just have to roll with the punches. Whatever comes, you deal with it.”