Baz Ashmawy: ‘With my da, some people weren’t meant to be parents. It’s just the way it is’

The broadcaster talks to Donal O’Keeffe about becoming a grandfather at 46, his hopes for a greener future, his thoughts on toxic masculinity, racism, his father and, of course, his Mammy

Sun, 19 Sep, 2021 - 18:45

Donal O’Keeffe

“My mum has amazing positivity, and it’s amazing what positivity will do in your life,” says Baz Ashmawy. “Having one person that believes in you, just one, it’s life-changing for people, you know, and I was very lucky in all that I learned from my mum.”

The presenter of RTÉ’s DIY SOS is perhaps still best-known for 50 Ways to Kill Your Mammy, so it shouldn’t be surprising that he is quick to credit his mother, Nancy, for all she did for him.

“Any good attributes I have, I think, I really picked up a lot of them from my mum. She’s a very empathetic, kind person, and she’s someone I look up to and respect.”

In conversation, Ashmawy comes across as enthusiastic and thoughtful, and, judging by the frequency with which he mentions his wife and their six children, it is apparent that his life revolves around his family. His tone is gentle and friendly, and he peppers his sentences with the phrase “you know”, drawing the listener into his thought processes.

When Baz was eight, his Egyptian-born father walked away, leaving Nancy to raise their son alone. This was something Ashmawy discussed recently in a remarkable interview The Tommy Tiernan Show on RTÉ, and he says he has been very gratified by the reactions to that programme.

“People were so kind. Sometimes it’s just nice to have a chat with someone, you know, and I love Tommy. I’d never met Tommy before and it was nice to just talk, and I’ve always had that thing [where] there’s no point me pretending to be anyone other than exactly who I am.”

In their interview, he spoke about his heartbreak as a child at his dad’s departure, about how his mum had gone out of her way never to badmouth her absent spouse, and about his own eventual forgiveness of his father, who has since passed away. Does he recognise any particular wisdom in his own actions?

“Do you know what it is, when you’re hurt or angry about something, I think, when you hold onto it, it can poison you, and people do that, they hold on to it and they get angry, or sometimes they suppress it inside them and then eventually it erupts in some way or other.” Again, he credits his mother.

“Maybe it’s down to Nancy. I learned a lot from my mother, regarding dealing with hurt and anger, and I just felt the best way to manage it was to try and understand it, because, in the end, it’ll poison you.

“With my da, some people weren’t meant to be parents. It’s just the way it is.” He says he thought a lot about his father when he became a parent himself.

“Like, for me, my representation of who I am to my children, that’s their representation of a man for the rest of their life. That’s a big responsibility.”

He believes it is important for men to be open and honest about their vulnerabilities and to accept that there is nothing wrong with having feelings.

“Suffering is a huge part of life, part of the human experience, everyone suffers, everyone has sadness in their lives. It’s okay, there’s nothing wrong with that; you’re not the first or the last person to feel sad or upset.

“Sometimes, with that stereotypical kind of toxic masculinity, there’s this kind of ‘don’t cry, don’t be sad, man up', and all these expressions which are nonsense. Absolute nonsense.” If Baz Ashmawy is his kids’ first impression of a man, what type of man was his own dad?

“I adored him. He was a man I looked up to, he was a big man, six-foot-four. He was handsome, very much into how he dressed, very intelligent, spoke lots of different languages. Very funny. He was charming, you know, but also very old school, very masculine.

“Not vulnerable, and maybe sometimes not completely approachable. He could be scary sometimes, you’d fear his reaction sometimes to things.” Baz says he wants his own children to know that when things go wrong, they can always come to him.

“It’s something I learned from my mum, because I got in so much trouble growing up. When things were really bad, she was the first person I could go to because I knew that she would help me. Now, I’d have to deal with the consequences later, but in the moment, she would help me, she wouldn’t judge me or criticise me or ridicule me, and we would work it out.

“My dad wasn’t approachable like that.”

Baz Ashmawy, and his mother Nancy. Picture: Moya Nolan

Whereas, Nancy was always a rock of sense?

“Yeah, she’s just one of those people. When I was younger, I travelled the world, and people often said, ‘Well, who is your big influence, who did you idolise?’ I didn’t idolise anyone.

“And then, once I’d met all these different people, I started to realise that the person I idolised was at home making black pudding and sausages all the time and, you know, half the time I wasn’t listening to her, but she had a real human connection, a real understanding of humanity and just the most amazing spirit.”

He recalls something Nancy told him years ago.

“She said, look, you’d want to know who you are, because you can pretend and pretend and pretend, but one day, you’ll catch your reflection in the mirror and you’ll ask yourself, do I like who I see?

“Sometimes people use drink and drugs to distract them from the reality of the world, but if you don’t deal with those issues, and you don’t like who you are, and you lie about who you are, it’s very dangerous. And this is the by-product of toxic masculinity in my opinion.” He talks about being of mixed race in Ireland.

“I look at Ireland now, and I’m like, God, this is great. This is amazing. You know it’s a completely different place. How people talk, and the language they use.” It’s far from the phrase he often heard in childhood: “‘Oh, he doesn’t look very Irish’. This is the usual one.

“Well, what’s your definition of Irish?

“I’ve heard every racial remark over the years. I’ve heard them all. My mother heard them all. And I’ve seen it dwindle. But there’s always going to be an element of it. Hate breeds hate. That’s the thing.

“I’ve heard seven-year-olds say things that have shocked me. And I’ve known, well, that child didn’t lick it off a stone. That’s something he’s heard from someone else above him and he’s just blurted it out now, and that’s what happens, but you’ll educate people. You befriend people who are different to you, you understand a bit more about their culture, and all of a sudden things look very different.”

Was it lonely to grow up different in Ireland?

“I don’t think so. No matter who you are, everyone has these questions they ask, where do I belong and who am I, but maybe it’s different when you look different, or you sound different, or your parents are different. You want to be like everyone else growing up, you don’t want to be different, you want to fit in like everyone else.

“But that definition is changed now somewhat. I look at my own children, God, they’re Serbian, Egyptian, Irish. Greek Orthodox granny, Muslim auntie, they’re a melting pot, and they’re fabulous with it.

“They’re great. It makes me very, very proud that they’re my children and that they’re Irish.

“There’s a new era and they’re part of that, and I love that about them.”

He says presenting DIY SOS has only reinforced his love of Ireland. “Working with people from all over the country, people coming from different countries, all volunteering, all helping each other, all doing it for some someone in a small community who needs the help.

“That’s amazing. I go to sleep at night and I feel better about the world my kids are growing up in.”

He is part of the GreenAware Challenge, an environmental initiative he says he is proud to promote, alongside fellow ambassadors Kathryn Thomas, Donncha O’Callaghan, Rosanna Davidson, Davy Fitz and Rachel Gorry.

“I think because I have kids of all kinds of varying ages, I seem to have been, over the last five years, lectured quite a lot,” he laughs, recalling his own environmental education.

“I have an eight-year-old and an 11-year-old, and they’re asking me questions all the time about sustainability and how we live, and where the planet is going to be.” The birth of his granddaughter, Lilly, six months ago, has shown him the world in a different light, he says. “It was a bit early! I’m only 46!

“But at 46, I’m probably a little bit set in my ways, and changing our ways can seem a bit overwhelming, but I like what GreenAware is doing, I like the idea of being part of something bigger, and that it’s about making small changes.”

Baz Ashmawy: "it's been really small things for us"

Beginning on September 18, and over 60 days, GreenAware will challenge members of the public to become more environmentally aware, while, via their Instagram accounts, the ambassadors will compete to raise funds for their chosen charities.

“I like the GreenAware campaign because they’ve brought in the competition side, so it’s not just about taking care of our environment, but also of communities. “I chose Dogs for the Disabled, which is a Cork charity that trains assistance dogs for children and adults with disabilities.

“Each of the charities will get €1,000, one of our followers on Instagram will get €1,000, and one of the charities will win €5,000 as well. Their tagline is ‘Be part of something bigger’, which is similar to what I was doing on DIY (SOS), so I just thought it was nice.”

Ashmawy believes that while previous generations might have claimed ignorance about man-made climate change, we are at a point now where we can no longer claim this, and it is up to each of us to make small changes in our lives.

“It’s been really small things for us, leaving the car at home, walking, and during the lockdown, we were all walking everywhere all the time anyway, so that made a lot of sense.

“In our house, as I said, I was getting lectured over things like leaving the fridge door open for too long, little things that make a difference and you just have to start to be accountable.

“It’s about small choices, like, when we’re shopping, buying 100% natural, trying to go plastic-free, making those choices constantly, and that will make a huge difference.”

Just back from a week-long holiday in Dingle with his family, Baz Ashmawy says life is good.

“My granddaughter Lily is a little pet, she really is. She’s great. When you’re looking at a six-month-old baby, it makes you think about the world, and wonder what’s the future going to be like, and what can we do to make it better, and what will the world look like in her day.

“We’re at this stage now where it’s like we’re turning this corner, and we can make these choices and we can do things, and I think, even after the pandemic and everything, […] it’s made people look at the world a little bit differently, I know it’s made me and my family look at things a little bit differently.

“You make these choices to try and be better, you know, and I don’t just mean as in GreenAware, but as a person, as a society, as a community, you can try and make good choices.”