A man of many talents: Donncha O'Callaghan's return to TV

From homeschooling the four kids (he's the PE teacher, naturally) to losing his dad when he was a child, no subject was off limits when Pat Fitzpatrick met Donncha O’Callaghan to talk about his latest RTÉ show

Donncha O'Callaghan. Pictures; Larry Cummins

Donncha O’Callaghan doesn’t drink. I’ve always found that a bit odd. He’s a larger-than-life messer from Cork that plays rugby — I’ve known a few of them in my time, and they all like booze, and then some. So how come he never felt tempted to try it himself?

It goes back to the untimely death of his dad, Hughie, when Donncha was six years of age, which led to older brother Eddie taking on the role of father figure.

“Eddie didn't drink," Donncha told me over the phone recently. “He collected glasses in pubs when he was young and he just saw the state people got into. I’d be going to him, ‘A few of the lads are going supping cider somewhere, I’m thinking of going’, and he’d say ‘It's great craic for an hour but then, you know ..’." He was a good influence at a critical point. It was mad having that kind of relationship with Eddie, I mightn't have done that with my Dad, but I could with him.”

This is part of what makes Donncha O’Callaghan so interesting. Yes, he has a hard-earned reputation as a prankster. (His reputation is so strong that some people will swear blind that Donncha pulled down PR guru Alistair Campbell’s pants in front of the press on the 2005 Lions Tour, when in fact it was Paul O’Connell.) But this Fun Donncha comes with a mix of down-to-earth intelligence and approachability that makes him a perfect fit for our TV screens. He is also disarmingly honest and open when it comes to talking about losing his dad at an early age.

There was five in the family. It was tough for my Mom, she was only 36, left there with 5 kids. I'll be honest with you, you don't appreciate everything she did until you have your own kids and realise how difficult it is. 

"Eddie, the oldest brother, took up the role of being the Alpha-Male influence in the house. Straight away he had to drop out of school and take up a trade, money had to come in and he realised that he needed to make a few sacrifices for the house. For me, he was always managing expectation, he was like, ‘You can't do that now, you can't mess up, that will make things really tough for Mom if you start acting the maggot like this.’ It wasn't being a bossy bollocks, it was keeping an ear out the whole time, gauging things, and being a good influence."

“Part of me thinks, God love him as well. He missed out.”

Donncha began his rugby career at Highfield.

“I started playing at underage level. My brothers played it — a big reason for it was my Mom knew we needed to let off a bit of steam, four lads hopping the head off each other. Rugby is a game that rewards that, and it's a male environment, there was good discipline in it, on trips you had to wear your school shirt and club tie, you had to thank the ref. She saw that — she's not from a rugby background herself. We had tried playing hurling or football but we were shocking.

“My brother, Ultan, was in Cork Con and was senior captain there when I came out of school. I wanted to push on in rugby and I knew Ronan O'Gara and Frankie Sheehan, quality players, were there and I could learn off them. And the old guard down there that would give you good advice. It was easy coming out of school when you had Michael Bradley coaching your Under 20s team, I remembered him playing for Ireland.”

Donncha enjoyed a star-spangled career that included 94 international caps, a Grand Slam, two Heineken Cups with Munster, and two tours with the Lions. Does he encourage his own kids (three girls and a boy) to play?

“My son is up in Con at the moment. I said it to the girls, but they associate rugby with 12 stitches in your head and black eyes, and they think that's rugby, that you have to spend the whole next day half-crippled. They don't like it — they don't like the smell of it, they don't like the contact. I don't want to push them, I don't want to be that fella. So they play hockey, a bit of basketball, they're out in Leevale doing a bit of athletics and they enjoy that. I want them to be in things they like.

“I learned a massive lesson, recently. I see the value in gymnastics myself and I wanted one of my daughters to do it, but she didn't like it. Jenny, my wife, was ‘leave her off’, but I was 'no, no we don't give up'. I remember going in and she just bawled her eyes out and I was 'Oh Jesus, stop, lets get some ice cream and forget about it!’”

The toll professional rugby can have on a player’s health has been making headlines recently, with the news that former internationals, Alix Popham and Steve Thompson, have been diagnosed with early-onset dementia. They’re Donncha O’Callaghan’s vintage — is he worried?

“I'm not worried, I feel good. It's alarming when you hear players going through stuff like that — you sign up for the other stuff. I look at Donal Lenihan walking around, swinging the hips, the crocked knees, we signed up for that. But Steve Thompson saying he can't remember the World Cup, where he won a winner's medal. Alix Popham says he doesn't want to be a burden on his family and you're there, wow. I do feel for those lads — we're really fortunate in Ireland. The best thing is always done by the players. We're centrally contracted, really well protected, not just a piece of meat. But I've been in England as well, where it's all about Saturday and get out on the pitch, it's more of a business.” Does he worry about his son playing the game?

“What we're watching on TV at international level, that's not what happens at club level. I'd be delighted for him to play; I think the good outweighs the bad in terms of building character and respect. But I think the game needs to evolve a bit. Rugby needs to have a look at itself and get back to being a skill type game, because at the moment it's a collision sport, and I grew up watching the great tries by the Barbarians and New Zealand, they involved evasion — and I wish the game gets back to that as opposed to attrition.”

I ask him how he managing his own fitness, a few years after retirement.

"It's difficult at the moment because the things I like doing are closed. I like going to the gym, I enjoy lifting weights, I have been doing a bit of jogging, but I'm too much of a big rig to be doing it, it's not good for me. I'm not a good runner. The main thing is being active with our kids, little 5km runs with them, or playing basketball, trying to do as much body-weight stuff as I can. Already I'm starting to feel like my shoulders are coming away a bit though — it's vanity!

“But like everyone else, I'm missing the routine, and so are my kids. The other day they ran a bath and put on all their swimming togs and goggles because they wanted to go swimming.”

It’s hard to avoid the home-schooling chat with a parent these days. I ask if he was Múinteoir Donncha during lockdown.

“Jenny’s all over it. I have a few areas where I help out. I'm in charge of Maths, but not for Sophie, she's 10 years of age, she's advanced beyond my capabilities! I have the other three from fourth class down to Junior Infants and I do PE, and I’m also the one that sits beside them on Zoom Calls.”

It must be strange to go on a school Zoom call and find one of the most recognisable faces in Ireland waving back at you. Donncha is the go-to guy now if you are planning a family-fun, sports or talent show, on TV, featuring on things such as Ireland’s Fittest Family and Game On.

Another show, Donncha’s Two Talented, has just returned to RTÉ One, where kids showcase a particular talent with a chosen adult. I’ve bumped him a few times in RTÉ Cork (you can’t miss him) — did they shoot it there?

“No, it was up in Dublin. It would be great if it was in Cork, if they'd let me in the door of the studio. If you could only get Daithi O’Se out of the chair!”

Did Covid restrictions affect the show?

“It was different this time out. Normally it's a talented child would pick someone they want but this year we had to stick to immediate family. Which was a kind of a pity, because the beautiful ones before were kids singing with their Grandads. And you had these brilliant moments — you could see it meant everything to the Grandads.

“But this year it had to be tighter, and the audience was only direct families. But it didn't change the experience with the kids, they got to spend time with a family member they mightn't get to spend a lot of time with. What I like about it is, you get a kid that is in a comfort zone with what they do and you get their Mom or Dad that are absolutely shitting themselves.

“I'd be honest though — I was looking at some of them. I wouldn't do it — fellas break dancing with their kids.”

My guess is he probably would, if one of his kids asked him nicely.

He’s done a bit of punditry work around rugby matches. Does that feature in his future career plans?

I don't enjoy the punditry side as much as the entertainment side. I felt the punditry was fucking panto, you know what I mean. 

"Rugby has evolved and moved on an awful lot and we're not even talking about that. Not everyone has an in-depth knowledge of the game and I think we're disrespectful with some of the punditry stuff — we're not educating about what's new and what's really happening. We're still going back to the old bitch and moan, 'that was good, this was bad'. I think people have a bit more understanding about rugby now.

“But Two Talented and Game On, I really enjoy that — the entertainment stuff.”

Wherever this new career might take him, I can tell that he likes it in Cork.

"What I love about it is, you practically know everyone. You know the way it is around Cork — you'd go ‘that's Hoggy's Mom's sister'. We were up in the basketball park the other day and it took me a few minutes to realise it was Derval O'Rourke's Mom. I was there, 'now I have you'. The reason was I knew her Dad from Highfield.”

Donncha made his social media debut recently, with his first post on Instagram. I wonder does he see a Joe Wicks-style role for himself, helping kids to stay fit online.

“I do it with my own kids. What I'm really nervous about is being preachy, you know what I mean. You don’t want to come across as judgemental. I just need to be the influence for my kids to see — they need to see me being healthy and active, and hopefully then it rubs off.

“When we go out there it's for devilment and craic. We're playing basketball at the moment, they can't believe how bad I am. They call me Biggy because I’m big and useless.”

He’s big alright. But he’s far from useless.

• Donncha's Two Talented airs on RTÉ One Saturday, 17.15pm