Peter Hook on Joy Division, New Order and the rifts that haven't healed
Peter Hook plays three dates in Ireland in November. Picture: William Ellis
Since his estrangement from New Order in 2007, Peter Hook has worked on numerous other projects, not least touring regularly with the songs of his former band and their predecessors Joy Division, the iconic Manchester outfit he was also a key part of.
The 68-year-old is currently on the road with Substance, the title of single collections of both his former bands, with November appearances in Dublin, Galway and Belfast. Fans will have a chance to hear songs that haven't been performed live by any of the original members in over 30 years.
'Hooky', as he's best known, was one of the most iconic figures on the Manchester music scene. While hunched over a low slung bass he played the instrument like a lead guitar, letting distinctive high notes define the likes of ‘Love Will Tear Us Apart’ (Joy Division) and ‘Blue Monday’ (New Order), two of the most loved songs of their respective eras.
With current group The Light, Hook has moved over to lead vocals and now shares bass duties with his son Jack Bates. The band was originally formed to mark the work he'd done with Joy Division and "celebrate" the life of the band's charismatic frontman Ian Curtis, who died by suicide in 1980.
"I missed it dreadfully," explains Hook of his return to those early tunes. "In New Order, Steve [Morris] and I would pay Joy Division songs in soundcheck. Barney's [Bernard Sumner] big claim to fame was that he never looked back, but we never celebrated Ian's life and I was proud of what we achieved. I took it upon myself to find a way back into music by playing what was rightfully mine. The first night I was terrified because I didn't know if people loved or cared about Joy Division as much as I did."
Almost fifteen years later, Hook has built a global following and a new generation of fans, and not only "old codgers" as he suggests. "I think so many are led by their parents with all those memories and history with the band. He [Curtis] spoke very well to confused teenagers not knowing where they were going. His bleakness, storytelling and his life of unrequited love having a child and ending up divorced as he was going to be. This was all going on before he died at the age of 23. Young people go through the same things now and they need music for solace and inspiration, Joy Division fill that role.”
As well as revisiting the band he formed after seeing the Sex Pistols at the famous 1976 gig at Manchester's Free Trade Hall, Hook has also returned to several New Order albums that deserve more attention. The bassist was once quoted as saying the band's hit single ‘Regret’ was the last great New Order track. He's since revised his opinion of the group’s 1992 album Republic.
"We couldn't get it together on that record," he says of the original recordings. "It was supposed to be the saviour of the Haçienda, Factory Records and New Order but it didn't manage to save any of those three things. It just sat there and was slagged off by all of us, but now I've developed a new love for it."
The band's label and the iconic Manchester nightclub in which they were heavily financially invested had put them under a relentless pressure. At the same time, Sumner had been drawn to working with Johnny Marr in Electronic.
"We actually did write Republic in a New Order fashion with myself, Steve and Gillian [Gilbert] and she really surfaced on that record in particular,” says Hook. “But Barney then came back and when he got his hands on it he re-wrote the whole thing. I would love to hear the original tracks we made.”
Republic spawned such singles as ‘Regret’, but also came around the time as the collapse of Factory Records, and Hook retains his mixed feelings about the finished product.
“The whole thing was a massive cock-up but the great thing about doing (Peter Hook &) The Light is we were able to finish it off and it sounds more logical. We had missed a few opportunities so it was nice thing to do."
Hook's side project at the time was Revenge who offered a support slot to a new band of five-second generation Irishmen from Burnage. "Oasis played one of their first gigs with Noel Gallagher supporting us. They were The Rain before that, it was at the Middleton Hippodrome. My brother actually videoed it but would you believe he lost the tape? I said: 'That would have done your pension'".
Despite being a die-hard Manchester United fan, Hook suggests a sense of community among his home city's bands, whatever their club rivalries. "Noel Gallagher is such a fantastic songwriter, they have been City fans thick and thin back in the Maine Road days and I don't mind that. I love the sense of optimism you get at any football match because we all need our hopes raised, we all need as much of that as we can get. We began to play ‘World In Motion’ [New Order's 1990 World Cup song] during the Euros and it went down a storm".
Among Hook’s other projects has been he supergroup Freebase formed with Mani (The Stone Rose, Primal Scream) and the late Andy Rourke of The Smiths. That group split before their album came out in 2010.
"There were too many chiefs and not enough Indians,” reflects Hook, “but we did remain great friends and it was wonderful that we got the chance to do it."
Between the three Mancunian bass players, they all played their part in shaping the sound of the era. Will we ever see a scene like that in Manchester again?
"I think we were so blessed to have lived through the Sex Pistols and then acid house. We would get together and talk about the things we had all done. I think now it is very difficult for new bands because there is so much choice at your fingertips; it's a very strange time, you can't see the gold for the coal.”
While relations with the other New Order musicians aren’t great, Hook is still in contact with more recent collaborators such as Mani. “He's coping really well and keeping his spirits up and looking after his boys. I have to say his wife Imelda [who died in 2023] would be so proud of him.”
As he faces into his elder years, Hook pays tribute to contemporaries who’ve kept the music alive. “Our business is about survival, you need to have the standard bearers who carry on the spirit of these heartfelt bands. It's our job to take people back to a time when things seemed more soulful and spirited or just give them some respite."
While Hook appreciates how his past experiences have moulded him, the subject of his former New Order bandmates is still a thorny one. Has time helped heal the rift since he left New Order for good in 2007?
"No; not at all after what they did to me. They don't sound like New Order now and I don't think they should be using the name.
“I never understood why we never played some of our greatest work. They seem to follow what I do, but at least fans are getting two bites of the cherry."
The last time I spoke with Hook, he recalled being spat at by an elderly lady during an early New Order tour in Ireland. Have they had better receptions since?
He laughs: "I've had many an old woman spit at me since then and I don't take it personally. In an odd way I've become one of those spitters, spitting at the young. When I come to Ireland now it's such a delight. Outside of gigging we spend time in Waterford, which is wonderful and we have friends there. My wife also travels to Lourdes with the Irish contingent and they take a lot of kids. So we have quite a deep connection".
- Peter Hook & The Light will perform both Substance albums by Joy Division and New Order on November 14 – Telegraph Building, Belfast; November 15 Olympia, Dublin; and November 16, Leisureland, Galway.
