Ana Kriegel murder trial hears Boy B claimed Boy A told him he wanted to kill Ana

Ana Kriegel murder trial hears Boy B claimed Boy A told him he wanted to kill Ana
Anastasia Kriegel

The boy accused of luring Anastasia Kriegel to her death told gardaí his co-accused said to him and his friend that he was planning to kill the 14-year-old schoolgirl.

Boy B said he didn't believe his friend was serious and didn't know what Boy A was going to do. He also told gardaí that he lied when questioned about Ana's disappearance because he was scared and feared that he would be framed by Boy A.

The accused, who are both 14, cannot be named because they are minors. They have each pleaded not guilty to murdering the 14-year-old Kildare schoolgirl at Glenwood House, Laraghcon, Clonee Road, Lucan on 14th May last year. Boy A is further charged with Ana's aggravated sexual assault in a manner that involved serious violence to her. He has pleaded not guilty to that count also.

The jury has been watching 16 hours of footage of interviews Boy B gave to gardaí at Ballymun and Lucan Garda stations in May and July 2018. Boy B has previously said that he brought Ana to meet Boy A and they went together to an abandoned house in a park where he saw Boy A "flip" Ana and choke her while removing her clothes.

On July 7, during Boy B's seventh interview Detective Garda Donal Daly showed Boy B a photograph of a pair of gloves gardaí found in a rucksack in Boy A's home. Boy B said he saw Boy A wearing those gloves when he was choking Ana but he couldn't remember if Boy A was wearing them before that. He said he might not have noticed because Boy A usually wears gloves when outside.

Det. Gda Daly showed him photos of other items taken from the rucksack including knee pads, a snood and shin guards. Boy B said he couldn't remember seeing Boy A wearing any of those on the day.

When shown a mask also found in the rucksack he said he remembered that Boy A made the mask for the previous Halloween. He described it as a "zombie mask" and said it was "really cool". He added that Boy A didn't wear it on the day they met Ana.

Detective Gda Donal Daly. Pic: Collins
Detective Gda Donal Daly. Pic: Collins

Det. Gda Daly told Boy B he wanted the "truth, that is all I want."

Boy B replied: "I might have seen them but I don't recall. I don't remember seeing them but I might have." Det. Gda Daly told Boy B that this was his chance to tell the truth, adding: "For once and for all, what happened in that room?"

He asked Boy B: "Was [Boy A] wearing that mask? Just the truth."

Boy B responded: "Yes. He was wearing the mask." He said the first time he saw Boy A wearing the mask on that day was when he looked into Room 1 where he saw Boy A "flip" Ana and choke her while taking off her clothes.

He later said that he thought Boy A was wearing the knee pads and shin guards just before going into the abandoned house. He said he remembered seeing Boy A bend down and touch the shin pads. Det. Gda Daly said Ana's blood was on one of the knee pads and the mask. Boy B said he understood.

Det. Gda Daly told Boy B, "now is the time to tell the truth". He added; "I'm asking you now, tell us exactly what went on in that house, the truth. No half stories, putting bits in, taking bits out. The truth now, come on."

Boy B told him he went into the house first leaving Ana and Boy A outside. He went through all the rooms and when he came out Ana and Boy A were talking.

They started walking into the house and Boy B said he followed but Boy A turned to him and told him to leave. Boy A and Ana continued into the house and into a room, he said, while Boy B went to a separate room.

Boy B heard "shuffling" from the room where Boy A and Ana had gone so he went and looked inside. He saw, he said, Boy A "flip" Ana on to the ground and begin to strip her.

Boy B said Boy A had removed her top, hoodie and pulled down her pants when Boy A looked at him. Boy B ran away, he said, and as he ran he looked back and heard a scream.

Anastasia Kriegel
Anastasia Kriegel

He stopped by some bushes. He said: "I sat down to try and gather my thoughts and then I stood up and walked the rest of the way to the changing rooms."

Det. Gda Daly asked him what was the "real reason" he brought Ana to the abandoned house. He said Boy A asked him to, that he wanted to see her because of "relationship reasons".

Det. Gda Daly told Boy B: "You're a clever kid, right." He pointed out that Boy A was wearing shin pads, knee pads, a mask and possibly a snood. "It's not really a 'meeting about a relationship' material is it,?" Det. Gda Daly said. Boy B replied: "No."

Det. Gda Daly said he didn't believe what Boy B was telling him and added: "Tell me what you knew going over there." Boy B replied that he "didn't know anything" and that Boy A told him he wanted to see Ana for "relationship reasons".

"Come on," Det. Gda Daly said, repeating that Boy A had a backpack and was wearing shin pads, knee pads and a mask. Boy B said: "He was planning to kill her. I didn't know."

"I didn't know he was actually going to kill her."

He continued: "[Boy A] went to my other friend's house and told him he was going to kill somebody and that he was going to kill Ana Kriegel."

He said Boy A told him the same thing but he didn't think he was being serious. He added: "Usually, me and my friends would say when we get angry, we would say, 'I'm going to kill you,' as a joke. [Boy A] said that to me one time, that he wanted to kill somebody, but I didn't think he was being serious."

He further explained that Boy A said this in school about a month previously. He added: "When he called to me he did say it was for relationship reasons."

When pressed on what Boy A said, Boy B said he was in school sitting by himself when Boy A came over and asked if he wanted to kill somebody.

Boy B said: "I said, no. He replied: 'Ah here, why not?" I said because it's retarded and he was like, 'oh, come on'. I then asked who he was planning to kill and he replied, 'Ana Kriegel'. I replied with, 'in your dreams,' and he just left. I didn't think he was being serious."

He said it wasn't something you would usually hear Boy A say and he thought he was "joking, messing". Det. Gda Daly said Boy B had known Boy A for years. He added: "You knew he was serious."

Boy B said he didn't know what Boy A was planning when he asked him to get Ana. He added: "I just thought it was a friendly request."

Gardaí asked him why he didn't do anything when he saw what was happening. Boy B said: "Because I was scared.

"I was shocked, I didn't know what to do, my brain was frozen. I was frozen in place."

He said he didn't go for help because he "didn't think of it at the time. I was scared, I didn't know what to do." When gardaí called looking for Ana the following day Boy B said he was too scared to tell anybody.

He added: "I tried to forget about it. I tried to pretend nothing happened." He said he made up stories because he was "scared of being framed by [Boy A]."

Det. Gda Daly asked him what he thought when he saw what the garda described as the "murder kit": the backpack, shin guards and knee pads "and the rest". Boy B said Boy A, "usually wears this kind of stuff."

When Det. Gda Daly put it to him that it's not the kind of stuff you wear when "going out with a girl" Boy B replied: "No, it was weird."

The abandoned house

In his final interview later that day Boy B again described how Boy A called to his home that afternoon and asked him to get Ana. He described the route he took to meet up with Boy A and then how they walked to the field with the abandoned house. Inside the house, he said he heard shuffling from the room where Ana and Boy A had gone so he walked to it, stood in the doorway and, "stood still. I couldn't move. I couldn't do anything."

He saw Boy A stripping Ana and when he got to the bra he, "looked at me and that is when I went out of my frozen state and I ran."

He said he didn't know why they decided to walk for 25 minutes to the abandoned house. Det. Gda Daly asked him why he would walk all that way with a girl when there was nothing in it for him. Boy B replied: "Because I thought it was a friendly thing."

He said he didn't have any concerns about going to the abandoned house and didn't know why Boy A "targeted" Ana.

Det. Gda Daly asked Boy B why he did not tell the truth earlier. Boy B said: "Because I was too ashamed, too scared. I was shocked, I was horrified."

He was ashamed, he said, because he ran away. He initially lied, he said, because he couldn't remember what happened but was scared to say he couldn't remember.

He made up a story and when he later remembered what had happened he thought he couldn't go back on what he had said.

Det. Gda Daly asked why he didn't help Ana. Boy B said: "Because I didn't know what to do. I couldn't think. I was scared, my brain just stopped working. The only thing I could think of to do was to go home."

Gardaí looking for Ana called to Boy B's home the following day but he said he didn't tell them anything because he was, "too scared to tell them. I was too afraid."

Det. Gda Daly said: "But you could have saved her." Boy B replied: "I know." Det. Gda Daly asked: "Why didn't you try and save her?" He replied: "I don't know."

When pressed further as to why he lied Boy B said: "I was scared to admit that I didn't help Ana. That I was too stupid to not realise what was going on, too stupid not to get help. I was also scared of what [Boy A] would say or he would do to me if I did tell."

When Det. Gda Daly asked Boy B how he knew that Ana was "raped" he said he saw it in the newspapers and someone told him that because Ana was naked when found that meant she was raped. He also said that Boy A took off her clothes and asked, "Why would he do that?"

Det. Gda Daly put it to Boy B that when he went into the house ahead of Boy A and Ana and looked around the rooms he was: "Checking to see if the coast was clear."

Blood evidence

Boy B insisted several times that he didn't see any blood on Ana, on the top she had been wearing or at the scene. Det. Gda Daly also said that Boy B's description of Ana lifting her hands when Boy A removed her top was contradicted by scientists who said the top was forcibly removed and had blood stains on it.

Boy B said that from his "point of view" he didn't see any blood. He said the room was covered in broken glass and he didn't know what caused the blood on her top.

Det. Gda Daly said he didn't believe "for a second" that Boy B didn't see any blood and said Boy B was not making sense. Boy B replied: "I already told you the truth. I told you everything I knew. Everything I saw, everything I remember." He said he didn't want to speculate about there being blood because he didn't remember seeing blood.

Det. Gda Daly asked why he had not mentioned the mask during previous interviews and Boy B said he didn't know that would be an important detail. He said Boy A "usually wears weird stuff, odd stuff. He wears the stuff other people wouldn't wear."

Det. Gda Daly said Boy A brought a "murder kit" that day and was seen on CCTV wearing gloves in the park even though it wasn't a cold day. He added: "You knew what you were bringing her there for." Boy B replied: "I didn't."

The garda said he didn't believe that Ana, a big tall girl, would have stood there with Boy A wearing the mask, shin pads and shin guards. "You're saying Ana just lay there and took it. Do you expect us to believe that?"

Boy B said that he had previously told gardaí that she struggled when Boy A had his arm around her. He said she also "begged him, 'please don't do this'."

Boy B denies being 'part of the murder'

Det. Gda Daly said he believed that Boy B was "part of the murder" and brought Ana to the abandoned house and "handed her over, gave her to [Boy A]". Boy B agreed that he had used the words "handed over" in previous interviews but denied that he "lured her to her death".

He said that when he looks back now he realises he should have helped her. "You don't know how much times my dad has told me that," he said.

Det. Gda Daly said: "You brought her to the house to be killed." Boy B replied: "No, I brought her to the house because I thought [Boy A] was going to talk to her about Ana having a crush on him and he wanted to reject her or maybe ask her out."

He said he got home that evening and tried to forget what had happened. He said he didn't think Boy A would murder Ana. "I didn't want to think it," he said.

"When I saw what happened I ran away and I kept thinking to myself this can't be happening, this is not real and [Boy A] wouldn't do this. It's not like him."

Boy B said he could see why Det. Gda Daly believed he was involved in the murder. Det. Gda Daly said nothing Boy B had told him had changed his mind. Boy B said: "I told you the truth."

Det. Gda Daly pointed out that [the accused said] Boy A had told him that he wanted to kill Ana.

Det. Gda Daly said: "You have told us lie after lie after lie." He pointed out that the accused said Boy A had told him that he wanted to kill Ana.

He added: "You go and call to a girl who he wants to kill and you bring her to an abandoned house and you hand over that girl to [Boy A]."

He said Boy B had lied to everybody and tried to "wriggle" his way out of it by telling stories to suit the evidence. Boy B replied: "As I have said before I told you the truth."

The trial continues in front of Justice Paul McDermott and a jury of eight men and four women.

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